# AFS Enduro - Yet another whale style wing **URL:** \ **Category:** Foils and Boards - Gear Talk\ **Created:** [July 25, 2024, 2:32pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243 "2024-07-25T14:32:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![FoilFondler](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/foilfondler/32/299_2.png) [@FoilFondler](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/FoilFondler)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 12:18pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/215 "2025-05-20T12:18:26Z")
> [@OmarFoilCol](#): > > That Enduro 900 has great low end I think this is an open question. I came from k2 to enduro, which was a slight improvement in low end. But what I hear about silks needing speed feels very true for k2 as well, and I’m coming to understand the water I’ve been swimming in. I think Armstrong ha2 and I hear kt atlas and the like seem to be standard bearers for “good low end” these days. And after a better foiler borrowed my 900 and said it lacked low end, compared to his lift foils, I think I see now that for all the benefits of the Laurent magic, low end isn’t one of them. BTW I’d love if silk2 was high camber so can go smaller, and maybe around 10ar. ---
**Author:** ![FoilATX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9adbd/32.png) [@FoilATX](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/FoilATX)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 1:10pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/216 "2025-05-20T13:10:26Z")
This is where different riders different angle of ride and angle of pump comes into play. I’m surprised how little this is discussed but everyone has a natural angle of ride and pump and it can vary greatly as well as change over time. When I started riding the silk I couldn’t pump it at all so I would have said it’s low end sucks. But then I put a -1 degree mast shim and second wave I caught got a 3 for 1 whereas I had never linked a wave at all. 12 months later sometimes I’m back to zero but my preferred is -0.25. Whereas I know people who prefer the silk at the opposite with +1. ---
**Author:** ![OmarFoilCol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4bbf92/32.png) [@OmarFoilCol](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/OmarFoilCol)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 1:31pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/217 "2025-05-20T13:31:27Z")
Yes, definetly it all depends on how you compare it and against what. Haven’t tested the KT, and once tried a 780HA2 or 680 can’t remember which exactly, changing quiver in the water with a friend and I was on the Enduro 700 … Enduro has better glide, it’s smoother thru water and perceived not much difference on low end for take off - let’s say low end for gliding the Enduro has its way to deliver it thru glide and efficiency, not thru sheer draggy “lift”. That’s perhaps a kind of low ends aspect needs to be talked, I enjoy at my level being able to have just enough to take off and enjoy the best glide that can pull me thru lulls or just make the foil feel bigger cause I need to give it less input to get it to glide efficiently. For begginers the low end will be better appreciated perhaps as flying easier even at the expense of drag. In this case anyway I was referring to the Enduro having a great low end compared to other bigger older foils - I may assume the gong mentioned in the thread may not be as focused on glide as to in ease of use but at expense of drag which is not helping him to progress in some transitions for example. Really wanting to test the so Acclaimed low end stall speed on the KT, I’ll be ordering one for our next windy season in November/December ---
**Author:** ![FoilFondler](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/foilfondler/32/299_2.png) [@FoilFondler](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/FoilFondler)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 3:28pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/218 "2025-05-20T15:28:50Z")
My aforementioned friend borrowed the 900 with the biggest ha tail shimmed -1(less drag/trailing edge down when riding), as that is how I’ve been riding it and was my attempt at maximizing low end while minimizing drag. Also, something I’ve noticed about the armie ha, is that low end can be experienced as a violent takeoff. I noticed it towing someone’s rig, it would sort of blow up and I had to tame it. While the bumpy foils are smooth. Idk what is real and what is justification for what I own. ---
**Author:** ![OmarFoilCol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4bbf92/32.png) [@OmarFoilCol](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/OmarFoilCol)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 3:32pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/219 "2025-05-20T15:32:31Z")
hahaha - great last comment - The bias of justificating your own expenditure - valid 🤣 Well - for my peace of mind - everytime I try other foils I get more in love of my Enduros and Ultra - SILK - oh god, hopefully a new SILK v2 gets more glide and that super good carveability - I wouldn’t go 10AR - but more like 9 to 9.5 AR and I don’t know if high camber and front whale bumps are compatible - too much drag perhaps ---
**Author:** ![Wouzel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/wouzel/32/12510_2.png) [@Wouzel](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Wouzel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 4:13pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/220 "2025-05-20T16:13:43Z")
> [@FoilFondler](#): > > Also, something I’ve noticed about the armie ha, is that low end can be experienced as a violent takeoff. I noticed it towing someone’s rig, it would sort of blow up and I had to tame it. While the bumpy foils are smooth. Idk what is real and what is justification for what I own. I often times feel that way about foils with strong low end vs any foil that has better high end. It’s a more gradual vs abrupt takeoff so you’re not off the mark there! > [@OmarFoilCol](#): > > SILK - oh god, hopefully a new SILK v2 gets more glide and that super good carveability - I wouldn’t go 10AR - but more like 9 to 9.5 AR and I don’t know if high camber and front whale bumps are compatible - too much drag perhaps Yeah I hope the Silk v2 sticks to the medium aspect guns as much as possible. 9AR at the most. I’d like a tiny bit more glide for the 650 and more speed for the 850/1050 but really don’t want to lose the turns, especially the turns at speed! Oh and still monoblock! ---
**Author:** ![OmarFoilCol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4bbf92/32.png) [@OmarFoilCol](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/OmarFoilCol)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 4:26pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/221 "2025-05-20T16:26:43Z")
Hey man!! I have a kid now - new dad here - so please lets make it modular not monobloc 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Wouzel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/wouzel/32/12510_2.png) [@Wouzel](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Wouzel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 4:30pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/222 "2025-05-20T16:30:31Z")
🤣 Time savings so you can get back to the family faster!!! I would be surprised if my wish came true but a man has to dream! ---
**Author:** ![FoilLight](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/foillight/32/2561_2.png) [@FoilLight](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/FoilLight)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 5:51pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/223 "2025-05-20T17:51:54Z")
Hey Wouzel! I have heard really good things about the Mako tails. I would love to hear more about your take on these tails good and bad. I have a quiver of Enduros and an HA38 it’s the only tail I use… looking for advice on a second tail for surf and DW applications. Cheers! ---
**Author:** ![Wouzel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/wouzel/32/12510_2.png) [@Wouzel](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Wouzel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 7:27pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/224 "2025-05-20T19:27:51Z")
I’m doing a big tail write up but there’s too much wind and swell to focus on that these days so it’s been stalled out a bit 🤣 Here’s your down and dirty for the Mako tails on the Silks and Ultra foils: Mako Carve 130: Works on all Silks, too twitchy on Ultra. Best on Silk 850, I think the forward swept design makes the fuse feel shortened vs the 132 giving a touch more maneuverability. Cons: Not as stiff as the 132 so you feel turbulence a bit more. When matched with the 75cm skinny mast and intentionally pushing for speed runs I get speed wobbles. Mako Glide 120: Exceptional glide with awesome forward driving pump. Looser than HA38 because of the 35 span and decreased surface area. Best on Silk 1050 and Ultra 750 Very fast. Cons: Significantly less stiff than the HA38 While they enhance glide on all the foils, I strongly disliked the roll on the 850 with this tail. The 650 can overpower the tail span for good roll but the 850 just felt locked up. On the 650/850 Silks: I have experienced a phenomenon that I think is related to the stiffness but am open to correction. Occasionally on hard turns it feels like the tail is caught in turbulence and locks up the roll. Suddenly I’m frozen on rail and can’t get out of the turn. Only caused me to fall once but definitely breaks the flow of the ride when you can’t get off rail. As such, I won’t ride this tail on those foils. They are also made to be universal which makes the rear hole a bit fragile. Just take it easy when tightening down the back screw. I filled mine with solarez so I don’t have to think about it. Overall they are both great tails and worthy additions to a quiver but I wouldn’t say they replace the AFS tails because of the stiffness issues. The buttery smooth feel of the super stiff complete AFS kits is just impossible to ignore. I’m also on the list for an Ultra 41 and will be able to compare that to everything else when I get it. As far as Enduros go, I’ve heard nothing but positives with the Glide 120 on them. ---
**Author:** ![OmarFoilCol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4bbf92/32.png) [@OmarFoilCol](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/OmarFoilCol)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2025, 9:24pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/225 "2025-05-21T21:24:19Z")
Perhaps this other review may give you some additional insights > [@Review: Enduro 900 vs Atlas 790 vs 150 HAX](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/review-enduro-900-vs-atlas-790-vs-150-hax/10176): > > My main foil quiver for winging for almost 2 years was the Lift 150 HAX, with the 220 HAX used for light wind days. I was having a lot of fun with those foils, but I wanted to try something new. I had a brief stint with the KT Atlas 790, and finally settled on the Enduro 900 (with the E1100 replacing the 220 HAX for light wind). I thought the comparison between the three foils was very interesting, so here is my review. Rider and gear info: Seattle area, 70 kg weight (including wetsuit). All fo… ---
**Author:** ![jondrums](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@jondrums](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/jondrums)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2025, 9:50pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/226 "2025-05-21T21:50:13Z")
I previously talked about a lack of low end on the enduro 900 with HA38 at 95kg. All that has changed now that I’m using the Axis 35mm skinny, which is a very small tail, but also with its high aspect seems to have unlocked much smoother pumping including a bit better low end. I had to significantly modify the axis tail to fit on the 30mm hole pattern and flat bottom mount. ---
**Author:** ![FoilFondler](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/foilfondler/32/299_2.png) [@FoilFondler](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/FoilFondler)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 12:11am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/227 "2025-05-22T00:11:47Z")
Curious about that as bigger is SUPPOSED to help low end. Wonder how the ultra 41 will work. I can imagine chopping it too. ---
**Author:** ![Wouzel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/wouzel/32/12510_2.png) [@Wouzel](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Wouzel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 1:12am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/228 "2025-05-22T01:12:15Z")
People who are inexperienced with small tails struggle to pump them as they push straight through the tail. I can absolutely hammer on my Cloud IX 157 so it has a sense of low end at takeoff and I feel like my pumps create dramatic vertical lift. In flight the “low end” is confused by tail speed. A slower tail drags you towards stall speed faster but sometimes makes it easier to stay in the energy pocket on swell giving better low end vibes. Quite the balancing act to match up the perfect kit on any given day in the water. ---
**Author:** ![TheFoilKook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9a140/32.png) [@TheFoilKook](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/TheFoilKook)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 6:39pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/229 "2025-05-22T18:39:30Z")
Can you elaborate more on pumping technique with smaller tails? I think this might be a problem for me haha ---
**Author:** ![Wouzel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/wouzel/32/12510_2.png) [@Wouzel](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Wouzel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 9:09pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/230 "2025-05-22T21:09:36Z")
So, I should not be considered a pro pumpfoiler by any means. I have enough to get on foil and then link swell in the Gorge. For me the change clicked when I stopped thinking about pumping as pushing off the foil and I started focusing on unweighting the board. When I push, I can push through the small tails, especially with longer fuses (short pivots faster to avoid this). If I focus on gently unweighting though, this allows the front to lift naturally and the no drag tail to simply be along for the ride. Or at least that’s how I perceive it. ---
**Author:** ![jondrums](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ea924/32.png) [@jondrums](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/jondrums)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 10:17pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/231 "2025-05-22T22:17:28Z")
For me, smaller tails and shorter fuselage pump totally differently, but in practice way better. For flatwater/dockstart maybe not so much. But in real conditions with choppy or windy surface or even just clean swell rolling through - having the pitch maneuverability of a small tail and short fuse is golden. We can adjust height on the mast quickly to stay high even as the surface undulates. I can get the benefit of speed going down the back of a swell, I can keep the foil in the water going over a bump without touching down the board, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Wouzel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/wouzel/32/12510_2.png) [@Wouzel](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Wouzel)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 5:00am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/232 "2025-05-24T05:00:33Z")
Dockstart version: > **[Enduro GLT Front Wing - AFS](https://afs-foiling.com/product/enduro-glt-front-wing/)** > > Est. reading time: 1 minute ---
**Author:** ![Jeroensurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c77e96/32.png) [@Jeroensurf](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Jeroensurf)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2025, 7:33am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/233 "2025-05-24T07:33:53Z")
That is what I was waiting for… and (pre)-ordered one at the shop. Available in June (so probably mid july, but let them suprise me) ---
**Author:** ![OmarFoilCol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4bbf92/32.png) [@OmarFoilCol](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/OmarFoilCol)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2025, 8:10pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243/234 "2025-06-12T20:10:29Z")
Finally got to ride the Enduro 700 in ideal prone conditions! Clean small long rollers, taking advantage of the additional speed and glide and lots of space for carving. I find the Enduro to be ideal proning in this kind of conditions, not that in not so clean and faster messier waves won’t work (steeper too) - but thinking that the silks will work better in steeper more aggressive waves. Using 80UHM / Short fuse and position HA38 > **[Mareta Surf on Instagram: "Foil heaven delivering the goods! 🪽 @afsfoils...](https://www.instagram.com/reel/DKzspBKgtNs/?igsh=a3ZldWd3OWF0MzU2)** > > 29 likes, 4 comments - maretasurf on June 12, 2025: "Foil heaven delivering the goods! 🪽 > > @afsfoils Enduro 700 / HA38 > @coguakiteboarding Mid 4'11" x 18" x 42L > @insta360 @insta360colombia". [Previous page](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/afs-enduro-yet-another-whale-style-wing/6243.md?page=12)