# Beta foils wake thief

**URL:** <https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/beta-foils-wake-thief/2605>\
**Category:** Foils and Boards - Gear Talk\
**Created:** [July 9, 2023, 10:43pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/beta-foils-wake-thief/2605 "2023-07-09T22:43:40Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Meow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Meow](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Meow)\
**Post date:** [July 9, 2023, 10:43pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/beta-foils-wake-thief/2605/1 "2023-07-09T22:43:40Z")

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[![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/progressionproject/original/2X/1/1bbf06079ae19d122107c27e9183a83d59e09d80.jpeg "My first Freefoil experience | BETA Foils") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfJbF0xkUOY)

What are your guys thoughts? Double mast concept seems to be a game changer for super wide span wings.

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**Author:** ![Matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Matt](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Matt)\
**Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 10:40am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/beta-foils-wake-thief/2605/2 "2023-07-10T10:40:34Z")

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Similar to the [aquaskipper](https://human-powered-hydrofoils.com/hydrofoils/aquaskipper/), along with many other human powered foils.

This is an iteration on the older concepts, but it is certainly innovative in that it enables 2hr+ flat water pumping. This gets a little bit meta, but I really like the approach of **valuing novelty**. The best evolutionary strategy is to explore and exploit novelty. This is how most great innovations came to exist, **while exploring how to reach some other objective.**

Comparing Novelty based vs Objective based innovation strategies:

> Novelty search does **not** reward progress as defined by objectives or performance, rather it _rewards_ _being different._ It is evolution without objectives. It believes complexity growth in natural evolution is not a byproduct of optimizing fitness, but rather a consequence of nature’s open-ended propensity to discover various ways to meet challenges of life. And this has lead to perpetual discovery of novelty, and increase in complexity.
> 
> Novelty search mitigates **deception** — in which seemingly promising fitness candidates fall into local maxima, and thus can never attain global maxima causing evolutionary algorithms to fail. Deception is unavoidable with objective-based search.
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> It is important to note that novelty is not a random walk kind of situation — novelty rewards diverging behaviors, thus creating a constant pressure to do something new. [source](https://medium.com/@nniranjhana/on-genetic-algorithms-why-novelty-search-is-important-6d2879d3ed81)

In short, I think it is absolutely epic that someone has done this, and I think net positive for foiling.

(zero interest in trying one until they figure out how to make it turn 😃 )

To add to the novelty, this is why amplifying novelty (by sharing it, discussing it etc) is important for the evolutionary process. Someone in a tangential or unrelated field looks at this and goes _ **hmmm that might be useful for my idea to build a solar powered efoil** _ and the process continues

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**Author:** ![Matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Matt](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Matt)\
**Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:59am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/beta-foils-wake-thief/2605/3 "2023-07-12T08:59:56Z")

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Will the pump foilers follow suit I wonder. I reckon the box shape adds structural integrity such that the front foil could start going mega high aspect.

 ![Untitled-2022-07-10-1237](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/progressionproject/original/2X/7/70e37292d536b70e1cc4fe7924904eab163f0b88.png)

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**Author:** ![JKicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc348/32.png) [@JKicker](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/JKicker)\
**Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/beta-foils-wake-thief/2605/4 "2023-07-12T20:04:10Z")

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Seems like a rad breakthrough! I’m curious to see what could be done with one of these attached to a downwind board - can it just be ollied up?