# Dock starting progression **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [March 17, 2025, 7:13pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088 "2025-03-17T19:13:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![stralen999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@stralen999](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/stralen999)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 7:13pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/1 "2025-03-17T19:13:02Z")
Hi, I’m 110kg i’ve started dockstarting with the axis bsc1120 with a pvc launcher like wake thief, so far i got 10sec; 1. i tried the gong sirius 186xl but find it too hard with AR15 2. i’m trying with the PNG1310, but can’t match the time with the bsc1120 it feels it hasn’t as much lift in slow speeds, and its tricky to find the right tune to pump compared with the bsc1120 in order to progress which wing i should move to? 1. PNG1150? 2. ROAM1700 (2800cm2 / ar 9) tips would be appreciated ---
**Author:** ![dillionaire](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/dillionaire/32/2800_2.png) [@dillionaire](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/dillionaire)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 7:25pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/2 "2025-03-17T19:25:04Z")
Anyone else in your group do it with you? I have taken two buddies from around 15-20 seconds to around a minute from just giving them advice while they’re riding. Bring a friend that knows what they’re doing, it will really help. If you’re in Florida, you’re welcome to come join us sometime Anyone of those wings should be fine, doesn’t really matter. It’s more about the rider imo as long as the wing is big and slow. ---
**Author:** ![Dheacock11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@Dheacock11](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Dheacock11)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 7:26pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/3 "2025-03-17T19:26:40Z")
PNG 1150 and 1300 are known as the easiest axis foils to learn dock start on, at least on red fuse. Never tried a BSC dock starting. 1310 seems to be generally unloved. But really, more attempts (hundreds of) is probably the right answer over gear. Though I will say personally a big stab helped me tremendously at the beginning. The 500 free is so slow and massive but unbelievably stable. ---
**Author:** ![stralen999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@stralen999](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/stralen999)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 8:59pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/4 "2025-03-17T20:59:08Z")
i’m alone i live far away from other foilers. thx a lot, but i’m in europe 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gonefoiling](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/gonefoiling/32/14360_2.png) [@Gonefoiling](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Gonefoiling)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 9:09pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/5 "2025-03-17T21:09:01Z")
Maybe dont rush to buy new gear, spend more time on the gear that seems to be working for you already. spend time building the pump muscles instead? ---
**Author:** ![Slappy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Slappy](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Slappy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:11pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/6 "2025-03-17T23:11:11Z")
Honestly you should probably just give the Sirus 186 more time if your only goal is endurance. It’s a very forgiving wing to pump with very slid pitch stability. It’s not easy to turn, I’m 75 kg and I have to move my back foot side to side as I turn it. Alternatively just get a Sirus 156, it turns well and is way more playful yet still able to pump for time. What do you weigh? ---
**Author:** ![stralen999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@stralen999](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/stralen999)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:36pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/7 "2025-03-17T23:36:39Z")
110-115kg 110-115kg 110-115kg 110-115kg ---
**Author:** ![Slappy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Slappy](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Slappy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:50pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/8 "2025-03-17T23:50:07Z")
Being on the larger side I would definitely go with the Sirus, either 186 or 156 should work. Make sure to get the 19 mm HM mast. If you have a dock with an overhang it is a very easy foil to start. ---
**Author:** ![silas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@silas](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/silas)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 6:10pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/9 "2025-03-18T18:10:34Z")
Second what @Slappy says, as far as gear upgrades go. Not many options with the stiffness and glide of the gong setup for a guy your size. I am dock starting the Sirus 116 with veloce 40 tail at 95-100kg and can go for a minute or so. Sounds in general like more time on foil with the pump setup would benefit you, a couple hours behind a boat would likely be very worth the effort/cost to make it happen. ---
**Author:** ![seawing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@seawing](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/seawing)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 6:17pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/10 "2025-03-18T18:17:06Z")
What problem are you having with the Sirus? ---
**Author:** ![stralen999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@stralen999](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/stralen999)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 6:30pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/11 "2025-03-18T18:30:28Z")
i sold it, found it very hard to manage, unbalanced, screw system is a bit unpractical, low frequency pumping, unnecessarily high AR, torsion complexity, wing/mast deflection, i’ve read somewhere sirius wings are bit tacky. perhaps the 156 is nicer. i found the sweetspot for the PNG1310 and is a cool and manageable wing. ---
**Author:** ![seawing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@seawing](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/seawing)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 7:48pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/12 "2025-03-18T19:48:08Z")
Wings over ~1600 span (I think it’s more to do with span than AR) definitely take a little different approach. But it comes down to what you want to do, if you want to pump for 5+ minutes (and aren’t running a 20 minute 5k) you need something that size. The PNG 1310 is tricky as it doesn’t seem to give much feedback before stalling, but is otherwise great. ---
**Author:** ![SpokeyDoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@SpokeyDoke](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/SpokeyDoke)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 7:55pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/13 "2025-03-18T19:55:17Z")
Where in FL? I’m headed to Stuart next week, and thought I’d bring a dockstart setup in case of low/no wind days… ---
**Author:** ![dillionaire](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/dillionaire/32/2800_2.png) [@dillionaire](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/dillionaire)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 8:16pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/14 "2025-03-18T20:16:35Z")
I’m in Satellite Beach, Fl. We have a giant prone group and a big wing group too ---
**Author:** ![mediterranean\_foiler](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/mediterranean_foiler/32/7386_2.png) [@mediterranean\_foiler](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/mediterranean_foiler)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 7:06am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/dock-starting-progression/9088/15 "2025-03-19T07:06:34Z")
The key to speed run your learning is to dissociate the launch and the ride. The Launch is launching from a dock, rock, or even with a launcher. It is a thing to learn in itself. The Ride is what happens after launching, it’s the pump and glide. It is much easier to learn first gliding and pumping. And only after come back to the Launch. It is key to reduce the lead time (wait time) between attemps to gliding and pumping. Solutions exist: Foildrive and tow. You will learn to pump and glide in \<20 hours. Once you’ve an ok undertanding of your foil, the launch will be easier to learn, because you will be jumping on a plateform that you know how it behaves. But trying to learn the launch without understnad how your foil glides, and trying to learn how to pump by having only 1 or 2 seconds of attemps every 5 minutes until you swim back and climb back on the dock is very uneficient.