# Ep139 - Andrew Sayre (safety) **URL:** \ **Category:** Podcast Discussion\ **Tags:** safety\ **Created:** [October 26, 2024, 1:17pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467 "2024-10-26T13:17:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Matt](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Matt)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 1:17pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/1 "2024-10-26T13:17:03Z")
https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?visual=false&url=https%3A%2F%2Fapi.soundcloud.com%2Ftracks%2F1930383521&show_artwork=true&maxheight=166 tldl - [instagram](https://www.instagram.com/p/C-qRNbRSzET/?hl=en-gb&img_index=1) from Andrew > I stalled out in a late turn on top of a wave and had a slow motion fall where the board rolled over. As I tried to kick my board away, my left calf came down directly on the front wing tip, and it penetrated through my calf until it hit bone. I knew immediately I was cut, but when I came up and got on my board I I was shooting blood out of the wound that was 4" long and very deep This was crazy to listen to, I wasn’t really aware of the story, but two easy takeaways 1 - tourniquet 2 - smart watch or phone to call emergency The amount of things that went perfectly right that saved his life is insane - buddy applied tourniquet in \<2min, foiling within short paddle of exit, random combat medic standing right there, specialist surgeon in town.. crazy lucky. Safety is mostly giving yourself a few freebies so that it’s your lucky day when the shit does hit the fan, and this is a good example of just getting insanely lucky. Anyway, add it to the list of things that can go wrong. > [@Downwind safety](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/downwind-safety/1640/57): > > I updated the [safety section](https://www.dwfoil.com/p/safety) of the blog if anyone cares to comment Included the following: A note on leashes Downwind foiling has one big safety advantage over other offshore activities like offshore kayaking. If you fall out of the kayak and cannot get back in, then you are stuck drifting, which is how most people get hypothermia and then die. A downwind foil board (a big one[5](https://www.dwfoil.com/p/safety#footnote-5-127111321)) gives you an ability to easily paddle at ~5km/h for a few hours without too much suffering, and with the wind yo… **Some cut resistant suit options discovered in the thread** - Foiling specific: [Weev](https://weev-textiles.com/) - Misc: [Memphis 7 Gauge Dyneema Sleeve](https://www.amazon.com/MCR-Safety-9318D7-Memphis-Dyneema/dp/B009A5772A) - Speed skate suites: [Apogee](https://xactskateshop.com/product/apogee-cut-resistant-undersuit/), [Nagano](https://naganoskate.com/en), [Nice](https://nicesports.nl/product/nice-snijvast-schaatspak/) - Shark proof wetsuit: [sharkstop](https://sharkstop.co/products/front-zip-surf-steamer) ---
**Author:** ![miamiwngr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@miamiwngr](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/miamiwngr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/2 "2024-10-26T14:42:01Z")
I haven’t listened to this one yet. What foil was he using? ---
**Author:** ![Hdip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a4c791/32.png) [@Hdip](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Hdip)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/3 "2024-10-26T15:36:07Z")
Kt prototype as he was a rep out knows the current rep. ---
**Author:** ![Matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Matt](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Matt)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 3:53pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/4 "2024-10-26T15:53:24Z")
also maybe worth mentioning it was a rather scratched up proto that he cleaned up (and, implied in the interview maybe inadvertently sharpened it) looking at the newer race foils across the brands they all have fine enough tips to achieve this. My take is that this was a relatively good warning for everyone to freshen up their safety agenda ---
**Author:** ![Washout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8baadc/32.png) [@Washout](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Washout)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 3:54pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/5 "2024-10-26T15:54:52Z")
It was also his first session on it after sanding down some reef rash. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was sharper than a brand new foil. ---
**Author:** ![miamiwngr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@miamiwngr](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/miamiwngr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2024, 10:04pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/6 "2024-10-26T22:04:45Z")
Is anyone making a wetsuit with foil protective lining yet? Kevlar mesh or something like that in select areas ---
**Author:** ![Matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Matt](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Matt)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 6:56am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/7 "2024-10-27T06:56:24Z")
Ion does an impact suit, but I think something that wouldn’t have helped in this case, as much as anything foam based would not stop a knife > ION Protection Suit: In fact, it comes with 10-mm-thick, PVC-free protection foam padding at the shoulders, upper back, back of the thighs, crotch, and shins speed skating seems to [use a cut proof suit](https://boutiquegarceau.com/en/collections/anti-cut-suits/products/combinaison-une-piece-anti-coupure-adulte) which is maybe overkill, but maybe major artery locations or whatever would be sufficient. In the case here it wasn’t even major artery, so idk what you can really do to prevent this > had a slow motion fall where the board rolled over. As I tried to kick my board away, my left calf came down directly on the front wing tip Just to be clear to everyone reading, this to me sounded like your standard backwards taco 🌮 ? It wasn’t even a high speed, high energy crash like you could expect jumping or flipping ---
**Author:** ![TooMuchEpoxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@TooMuchEpoxy](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/TooMuchEpoxy)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 11:43am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/8 "2024-10-27T11:43:20Z")
When I listened to this episode I kept thinking about riding strapped in more critical conditions. For myself winging straps have saved me from many super sketchy situations and let me push my riding in more critical situations, not so much about being able to attack the more difficult maneuver but about the recovery. Being able to muscle the board, or yourself, back to a controlled situation is huge. I’m still working on it but I’m trying to add straps to my prone game for this reason. ---
**Author:** ![FoilFondler](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/foilfondler/32/299_2.png) [@FoilFondler](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/FoilFondler)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 12:19pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/9 "2024-10-27T12:19:36Z")
I think winglets can’t do that. But my new favorite doesn’t have them. ---
**Author:** ![Matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Matt](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Matt)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 12:24pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/10 "2024-10-27T12:24:44Z")
Yeah my first thought riding the Art v2 was that it looked like it could split open a coconut if you axed it… wasn’t comforting at all! @Erik’s idea of some wingtip bubbles that would prevent it stabbing you but not ruin the flow sounded appealing, though I imagine it would run the breach feeling or something ---
**Author:** ![JohnVu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@JohnVu](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/JohnVu)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2024, 2:35pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/11 "2024-10-27T14:35:13Z")
I sliced my chest (through Lycra top), also cut my lifejacket, on a standard taco failed jibe in turbulent wave. New Gong foil at the time, promptly sanded it down Those are extremely sharp. Got a new Veloce H V3 and it’s just as sharp, but this time there’s so much shaping into the trailing edge and it’s VERY thin in the last 1cm, sanding it down is not an option. Need a Dyneema underlayer. ---
**Author:** ![Jonnpow](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/jonnpow/32/10_2.png) [@Jonnpow](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Jonnpow)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 3:53am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/12 "2024-10-28T03:53:48Z")
Yikes! Going sells a cut resistant shirt, sounds ok for preventing or lessening cuts, but probably less effective for stabbing points. Could potentially help though, but a bit of bluntness on the foil probably helps a lot too. ---
**Author:** ![wade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9de053/32.png) [@wade](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/wade)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 10:57am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/13 "2024-10-28T10:57:21Z")
the cut proot suit looks pretty interesting. Any idea how thick would this be ? Iv been looking at the ion long john element protection… is a sleevelss wetsuit 2mm with around 10 mm protection around the vital areas not sure if this would be better than a dyneema underlayer ---
**Author:** ![JohnVu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@JohnVu](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/JohnVu)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2024, 12:42pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/14 "2024-10-28T12:42:38Z")
I made a video of slicing cucumber in thin slices with both the Gong front foil and stab. You take a sharp knife, try to cut 10mm of neoprene (2mm there’s no point even trying) then make up your mind if that’s better than Dyneema 😉 PS: Gofoils are only for to make mashed potatoes ---
**Author:** ![wade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9de053/32.png) [@wade](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/wade)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 7:02am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/15 "2024-10-30T07:02:06Z")
Hey bud, So you think dyneema would be better for safety ? Do you know of anyone who has used a dyneema suit , would it be comfortable? Any idea how thick they are ? So I have no expereince with wetsuits. I have an impact vest and a helmet to foil with. Getting back in the water after a while due to injuries. Looking to pick up a suit since I definitely dont want more injuries 😛 Was going to call for the ion long john, since its sleeveless and im based out of sri lanka primarily… But im basically trying to figure the best option to stay as safe as i could be ---
**Author:** ![SpokeyDoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@SpokeyDoke](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/SpokeyDoke)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 1:26pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/16 "2024-10-30T13:26:41Z")
I know this stuff can take time to figure out and get into production, but the industry seems to be pretty slow on the uptake… Everytime I see things like new impact vests for foiling available only in black, with no pockets, I just shake my head. Perhaps a(nother) curated list of priorities/needs to make it clear…even though these seem like very obvious points?! - Hi-viz - Useful pockets - Cut protection Perhaps we will also see some foil design and manufacturing take safety into account, and not just performance (less slicey-pokey)…the Cedrus Evolution masts are out in front on that… ---
**Author:** ![seawing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@seawing](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/seawing)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 3:24pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/17 "2024-10-30T15:24:54Z")
Its woven material, looks like a thin sweater. I’m not sure if it will soak up water or not. If someone wants to test it out you can buy sleeves pretty cheap. [MCR Safety 9318D7 Memphis 7 Gauge Dyneema Sleeve, Gray, 18-Inch - Work Gloves - Amazon.com](https://www.amazon.com/MCR-Safety-9318D7-Memphis-Dyneema/dp/B009A5772A) ---
**Author:** ![JohnVu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@JohnVu](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/JohnVu)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 10:19pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/18 "2024-10-30T22:19:23Z")
Waiting for wind to test my Apogee anti cut speed skating suit I just bought. Fit very snug. Flexible enough. Feels like my Dyneema socks, which work (foil, zebra mussels) , forget there are on etc. Should help get suits on&off Planning on trying it under 6mm suit but also as anti UV in the tropics. ---
**Author:** ![hilotime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dfb087/32.png) [@hilotime](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/hilotime)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 11:25pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/19 "2024-10-30T23:25:30Z")
Looking forward to your review of the Apogee suit. ---
**Author:** ![JohnVu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@JohnVu](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/JohnVu)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2024, 11:43pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467/20 "2024-10-31T23:43:08Z")
Apogee anti cut suit (designed for speed skating), Nagano was the other Canadian brand I was considering but was more expensive. Level 5 (best level) against knife cuts. Dyneema Lycra mix. Took the small which was ![1000019913](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/progressionproject/original/2X/5/5b328085c91a3ebf74fd9d9faa686fc9f50547fe.jpeg) ![1000019904](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/progressionproject/original/2X/d/db7d69765339a1dd0b58677f8690e39a235ee229.jpeg) ![1000019903](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/progressionproject/original/2X/6/6f6cd724451f537191a4ce845eb12272132bf242.jpeg) the recommended size according to measurements. -very tight fitting against the body but stretchy enough that it’s not restrictive. Your private parts will show if you have big ones. -not hot, not cold -neck also protected -easy on& off except for the last arm (like a wetsuit) -very slippery against neoprene, makes putting on and off 6mm tight fitting Xcel suit much easier -quick drying -don’t know yet about UV protection but can just picture wearing just a bathing suit on top in tropical water -couple of seams on the side of the trunk was rubbing a bit against the skin with the harness pressure, nothing major but might tape some material against the seam and let the manufacturer know -could use some strap at the feet to hold it down while putting the suit legs on, not a big deal, slippery against neoprene so doesn’t ride up. -costly (Can $300), Nagano brand $400 -knife/sharp foil won’t cut through, tested against Gong trailing edge. [Next page](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/ep139-andrew-sayre-safety/7467.md?page=2)