Does anyone have any idea what this movement is where when speed drops too low, you move your weight forward. I noticed Erik Geiseleman doing it in some footage, and realised it is probably to do with moving the trim from “turn mode” to “efficiency mode”. I wonder.
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From dock starting we see incorrect foot positioning a lot.
Too far forward and one will often “push through” the foil or burn your rear leg quickly otherwise. I presume the"pushing through" is putting too much pressure for a given speed where you stall the foil section with too high of loading?
Too far back and the board resist on the push down, especially felt in the front foot, and you see high AOA and the foil is inefficient generally will slow then stall.
One can largely just feel what is right after some time.
For me recently I have noticed from dockstarting I’ll start out in a stance where my back leg burns out a bit quicker so when I feel that I move my front foot back maybe 1 cm till I feel just a bit more pressure on my front and that helps equalize the burn. I’m actually thinking I should focus on moving that front foot back earlier even.
From my few FD uses it is clear, one needs to put more forward pressure to counteract the FD then when going to pump motor off at least I’m too far forward and often pump through the foil thus need to move back.
Yeah, he’s just moving his feet to the most efficient spot. Keep the foil level with very little up and down input so that it can run downhill the easiest.
Prior to that he was in a surf stance to crank turns easier.
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Especially when using a small stabiliser, if I slow down too much the tail would start to sink, which would then cause the angle of attack to increase, and eventually cause the foil to stall. To avoid that, I step forward when going slow enough, and move my weight further back again when going at good speed.
Sometimes it’s not even necessary to step forward, it could be sufficient to just lean forward a bit to maintain a good angle and avoid the foil to slow down.
so you’d agree that turn mode has your weight further back than ** efficiency mode**?
What mode do you pump in? In the clip above, would he have been pumped in the turn mode or the efficiency mode?
Yes I think what is interesting is when it is to step forward, meaning a drastic change is necessary.
With winging, I don’t often (ever) see the same low speed turn/glide nuance 
Sure you see it in winging from all the pros. They ride powered up for turns and tricks with the back foot in the strap. They ride back out to sea with their back foot out of the strap and forward.
Turn mode has your stance spread wider so that you can easily perform more extreme pitch changes on the foil.
Example: Kyle Knox with wide surf stance hitting white water. Nose of board is pointed down and the wide stance allows him to put pressure on the tail behind mast so he doesn’t pearl. Kyle Knox on Instagram: "Always one of my favorite events and days of the year is the @foil_fever aloha classic on Kauai. This year the 3 rd time was a charm and was extra special as I was super stoked to take the win in the over 35 division and get 4 th in the 16 to 34 / open young guns age group. The people, the vibe, and the foiling culture is so great and I feel lucky to be apart of. With amazing conditions all day it was great to watch all of the other foilers pushing the envelope and progressing the sport. I had a blast to say the least! Thanks so much for everyone who is a part of/ participant in making this great event so special. @codefoils was extra 🌶️ spicy 🔥 @justinternes_jt @darkartssurf new beluga rocket 4 ft 6 felt amazing. @kaohileash extra fast bright green double coil"
Efficiency mode is narrow stance to limit changes in pitch. This is a huge help for pumping small ha foils.
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ah that is interesting, i haven’t seen that, but will have a look.
That should start at 2:02:48. Just a random section of a contest.
Edit to respond without a new post. Yeah, agreed. Probably due to them riding tiny foils. They’re powered, so no need to ride something they can paddle into waves on.
ah that’s perfect, thanks!
Interesting, you can see they can’t really pump when they’re locked into the turn mode, and when going too slow the trim is terrible, but great for turns. Only once they are going back out and take the back foot out does the board want to glide.
an example of a winger who understands trim
This is a really interesting discussion, especially the quirks with the FD and pumping.
If your mast is too far back, you’ll actually just nose plant when you pop up unmotored. Piros has a good video on mast position, where he recommends putting the FD mast as far forward as comfortable, pretty much the opposite of what FD recommends. This makes it tougher when blasting around but means you don’t need to adjust (or not as much) when up on foil.
I have mine at a point that’s tolerable, any further forward and my front leg gets burned out quickly. I can pop up on foil fine that way but I still need to take a step back to get in a nice pumping position. I’ve only recently discovered that sweet spot - when you find it the pump feels completely different, almost like a spring.
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Hi Matt, yes your post has made a huge difference for my pumping. I thought that I’d been moving back but knowing how the level of support should feel was the key.
It feels like pumping a mountain bike with soggy suspension versus a bike with the compression damping turned full-on. It’s unweighting off mush versus off a platform.
Thanks again!
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That’d be @mcflowi
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I think the clearest indication that the front foot is way too far forward is overextending the front leg. If your front leg goes straight but your back leg stays bent, the it’s too far forward.
random example that shows this quite well
compare this with how absolutely stacked the pros are when pumping. they are 100% perfect trim mode, at the compromise of everything else
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This is a great comparison!
Here is a great clip of Kane super smooth and fullly trimmed. Look at how when perfectly trimmed, there is almost no distinction between front and back leg
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This is such a good tip! Every once in a while I would exit a wave and my pumping was “effortless”. I couldn’t put my finger on what was making my pumping effortless until I read this post. The last few sessions I have been adjusting foot position, mast height, speed, etc. while exiting a wave until the foil feels firm under both feet. I hate to use the game changer terminology but knowing that the foil should be firm while pumping was a complete game changer for my pumping. I had no idea before…
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I made an IG post with the findings here as it seems to be resonating, apologies in advance but I think this seems to be enough of an issue to try and share awareness,
seemingly obvious to those who figured it out through trial and error and impossible for those who haven’t, and somehow not included in the youtube coaching syllabus
You legend!
But I couldn’t get the link to work to the YouTube clip of…Kane?
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Nice thanks Geoff! Your breakthrough really surprised me, glad to have found something there
Yeah links on IG don’t seem to work, need to physically copy and paste it. - EDIT - just linked to the source on IG.
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Interesting breakdown on trimming a board without rider attached from @Greg_F in this thread, and Greg seems to advocate for a trim that matches what I’m suggesting:
Personally I like to be just a touch forward of the balance point, around 1cm or so - Center of Lift (CL) 1cm in front of your Center of Gravity (CG)
Which I guess speaks to why people like moving the mast forward, if they otherwise change nothing, it starts to make the foil feel more alive, as the trim gets better:
Some notes
Let’s assume your original position was perfectly balanced, meaning that if you jumped off the board in flight the foil would continue to fly straight. This means that as long as you stand directly centred over the lift of the foil when you unweight the foil it continues to fly straight.
This is a good idea for trim test of the board. The same should be true when you stand on the board with evenly weighted feet. If you don’t glide with even pressure in both feet, then your trim is out of whack