# Learning to prone foil without lesson or tow? **URL:** \ **Category:** Prone Surf Foiling\ **Created:** [December 27, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/learning-to-prone-foil-without-lesson-or-tow/4251 "2023-12-27T19:10:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GregH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@GregH](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/GregH)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/learning-to-prone-foil-without-lesson-or-tow/4251/42 "2024-01-03T17:12:21Z")
And just to add. I would prone everyday if I had the conditions. I think all the disciplines help each other but can be mutually exclusive. As in it helps to wing and flag out to better understand balance and touch points. Having a sup background makes downwinding a bit easier, ect. But all the disciplines need different equipment in the beginning and it adds up quickly. ---
**Author:** ![ctrlb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctrlb](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/ctrlb)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 12:10pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/learning-to-prone-foil-without-lesson-or-tow/4251/43 "2024-01-04T12:10:31Z")
The continued replies here are so helpful. > [@Matt](#): > > Worth saying, foils (takuma especially) in your price often going to be structurally absolutely dead. What do you mean by dead? > [@nord\_roi](#): > > However, I know you don’t want to wing, but you are in a prime spot for wing foiling…and since you are complaining about the wind…men you can use that wind to bring you behind the waves…then just surf foil your way in…you can learn how to pump the foil etc. This is certainly a fair point. Winging is something I should certainly consider long term as we do have lots of wind, might as well use it. I’m definitely leaning towards learning to prone first though and just grinding through the learning curve. > [@GregH](#): > > But all the disciplines need different equipment in the beginning and it adds up quickly. No kidding. Foiling certainly doesn’t have an affordable barrier to entry. ---
**Author:** ![Matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Matt](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Matt)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 12:45pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/learning-to-prone-foil-without-lesson-or-tow/4251/44 "2024-01-04T12:45:35Z")
> [@ctrlb](#): > > What do you mean by dead? All the interfaces start to loosen up and Takuma start off at a pretty low point is the gist of. I bought an old Axis fuse/mast setup as my first foil and the amount of slop in the connections was crazy, but I didn’t know any better… (Pedigo discusses the old Takumas with Erik. References [here](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/takuma-front-wing-connection-to-fuselage-slop/3107/20)) ---
**Author:** ![I\_draw\_boxes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cab0a1/32.png) [@I\_draw\_boxes](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/I_draw_boxes)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2024, 2:34pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/learning-to-prone-foil-without-lesson-or-tow/4251/45 "2024-01-04T14:34:40Z")
The Axis aluminum masts can get loose over time. The mast parts could be epoxied together, but this probably isn’t nearly as effective once the parts are worn. They also make carbon masts. Their first model was not stiff, but any of their most recent models (on their site now) are stiff. The front wing to fuse and tail wing to fuse connections are just bolted on and don’t rely on any tolerances to be tight. Most new competitor designs do away with the front wing to fuse connection and provide both as a single carbon piece. They have two fuselage systems (red/black) and their front wings are only compatible with one. The black fuse supports their most recent wing designs and their smaller sizes which are most suitable for prone. ---
**Author:** ![Youdig\_surf](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/youdig_surf/32/2141_2.png) [@Youdig\_surf](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Youdig_surf)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 1:53am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/learning-to-prone-foil-without-lesson-or-tow/4251/46 "2024-01-05T01:53:19Z")
Get yourself a helmet and impact vest, and since you gonna be probably kicking the stab like everyone else boots could help too to avoid cut. Wing is different as you have wing pressure in your hand, but starting prone surfing only is totaly doable. I wanted to start by prone , finaly tried wing and put more time on it but still learning surf foiling when there not enough wind. Surf foiling Is more difficult than surfing and you need to be hyper motivated as you will probably fall a lot and have like 1 second fly unlike in surf where you could ride the white foam when you started. You need to find the right spot and the right condition 2ft max very mellow wave little bit onshore wind for me and my spot are the nicest condition, make the wave more mellow. Prone surfing is kind like surfing the better the condition the more wave you ride , the faster you learn expect good condition for surfing might differ for prone foiling depending on your spot. Condition can make a spot prone foilable or the contrary, tho you might have a gem a special spot that work very often for prone this will be the best help to progress quick. ---
**Author:** ![ctrlb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctrlb](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/ctrlb)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2024, 1:19pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/learning-to-prone-foil-without-lesson-or-tow/4251/47 "2024-01-05T13:19:15Z")
I really like how more info keeps filtering in. Honestly, this thread has some of the most gems in one place I’ve found thus far. Thanks, everyone! Regarding: > [@Matt](#): > > All the interfaces start to loosen up and Takuma start off at a pretty low point is the gist of. I bought an old Axis fuse/mast setup as my first foil and the amount of slop in the connections was crazy, but I didn’t know any better… Thanks for clarifying on what you meant by ‘dead’. I also appreciated the additional note from i\_draw\_boxes regarding build quality and specifically tolerances. This info may be common to experience foilers, but in my research thus far on beginner foil setups most of the information centers around construction (e.g. carbon vs. aluminum) and wing size. I will keep the build info in mind as well. > [@Youdig\_surf](#): > > 2ft max very mellow wave little bit onshore wind for me and my spot are the nicest condition, make the wave more mellow. This is basically what we get all summer outside of tropical storm swells. I am planning on focusing on spots that work best for foiling though. [Previous page](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/learning-to-prone-foil-without-lesson-or-tow/4251.md?page=2)