# Opinions: No Limitz V2, especially vs new F-One HM 14 Mast? **URL:** \ **Category:** Foils and Boards - Gear Talk\ **Created:** [August 17, 2023, 9:57pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886 "2023-08-17T21:57:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Wunderer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Wunderer](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Wunderer)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2023, 7:29am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/83 "2023-09-06T07:29:26Z")
Your conclusions look wrong. You say changing Cd form 0.02 to 0.03 has small effect as they are small numbers. Plug them into equation and they change drag by 50%. ---
**Author:** ![DickDastard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d78d45/32.png) [@DickDastard](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/DickDastard)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 1:32pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/84 "2023-09-08T13:32:04Z")
> [@Evolution Cedrus](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/evolution-cedrus/3087/14): > > foiling to close the surface is not efficient for wings. They like to be around 1/2 span length from the surface for most efficient flight. That’s not my opinion, that’s from America’s Cup foil designers. The surface is not an efficient place to fly, it’s why dolphins completely exit the water and jump to breathe, and then swim well below the surface. Breathing and swimming near the surface is not efficient. This has not been my experience. At my local spot (wind driven chop in sf bay) all of the power is in the top 8"-10" of the water column. So much more glide when high on the foil. Anyone else experience this? ---
**Author:** ![Dontsink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@Dontsink](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Dontsink)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 2:33pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/85 "2023-09-08T14:33:13Z")
1/2 span deep is 40- 50cm with most wings nowadays. About half mast deep???..mmm. I think my foil is definitely glidier with about 2/3 of the mast out.I will go deeper in chop or turns. I vaguely remember a published paper on foils that said drag would increase when foil was submerged less than 1.5 (not sure?) of the max chord lenght (20-30cm) .It was certainly less that half span.I will try to find it. ---
**Author:** ![nord\_roi](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/nord_roi/32/123_2.png) [@nord\_roi](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/nord_roi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 4:38pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/86 "2023-09-08T16:38:13Z")
Interesting(you mentioned is " takallure " test), because he received later a uni progression kite, but with a Katana instead of the thinner uni mast and he was kind of not sure. Then he tried everything and that changed his mast on mast thickness. ---
**Author:** ![MediterraneanFoiler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@MediterraneanFoiler](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/MediterraneanFoiler)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2023, 8:50pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/87 "2023-09-08T20:50:39Z")
we always punp very high on the mast as it’s way easier. There are a number of explanations I’ve heard: water column is smaller when you are high, less water to push…and also that it reduces vortex, similar to the ground effect ---
**Author:** ![DickDastard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d78d45/32.png) [@DickDastard](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/DickDastard)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/88 "2023-09-09T01:48:42Z")
I think their is some disconnect between America’s Cup foil designers and board foiling. Maybe two different use cases. Armstrong ha foils had design input (supposedly) from AC designers. That did not turn out well… ---
**Author:** ![Bonifacio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@Bonifacio](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Bonifacio)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2023, 2:24am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/89 "2023-09-09T02:24:39Z")
Yes, certainly I go further and pick up more ‘energy’ from the waves the higher I am on the mast. Too deep and you have both extra drag and probably less wave lift. The biggest factor though is picking the right path. Perhaps he is talking about in completely flat water which is a rarity in the places we like to foil. ---
**Author:** ![EmeryThrill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/96bed5/32.png) [@EmeryThrill](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/EmeryThrill)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/90 "2023-09-10T20:28:04Z")
I think best also depends on surf/dw versus powered (wing or sail). Anybody that has done the former likely has experienced the acceleration and push of bring the foil close to the surface. ---
**Author:** ![DickDastard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d78d45/32.png) [@DickDastard](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/DickDastard)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 2:11am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/91 "2023-09-24T02:11:19Z")
I’ve had the Nolimitz V2 for almost a week now. I’ve only winged it so far but It’s an absolute game changer for going fast. Zero and I mean zero vent. It’s pretty incredible to ride at speed. I’ve had the V1, V1.5 and the og cedrus and it definitely lives up to the hype. Yes I happily paid full retail. ---
**Author:** ![DickDastard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d78d45/32.png) [@DickDastard](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/DickDastard)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 2:12am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/92 "2023-09-24T02:12:31Z")
I’m riding it with Lift 90 and carve 20 + extender ---
**Author:** ![Bonifacio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@Bonifacio](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Bonifacio)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 8:07am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/93 "2023-09-24T08:07:16Z")
Did you ride it back to back yet with either of the lift masts? I rode the NL V2 also but noticed only minor differences to the numerous other masts I own beyond the weight while carrying it (that’s a compliment btw, all my other masts are great). I may pick one up in the spring if they seem to be holding up. What’s your weight again please Dick, I 'm always wondering if the 90HA would be useful for me at 90Kg? Always figured it was probably too small and our waves are generally too gutless. Yeah, the 20 Carve+ was a huge performance upgrade for me from the 26, at least with the 150X. I can use it with the 110X but when it blows over 35 the Marlin 14 matches our conditions better. ---
**Author:** ![walter](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/walter/32/108_2.png) [@walter](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/walter)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 8:25pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/94 "2023-09-24T20:25:11Z")
Yeah, also in the SF bay and find that it’s more efficient nearer the surface, even when not riding with the wave energy. The effect feels very non-linear, with a huge jump in efficiency very close to the surface. Maybe the efficiency decreases when the foil starts gurgling, but I can’t hold that position long enough to find out. For an Axis 1300, half a wingspan would be 65cm of mast underwater, it’s hard for me to imagine when that would be efficient. I did see a paper that seem to implies that increasing the angle of attack of a wing near the surface can significantly improve lift and reduce drag, I didn’t actually read the entire paper though, just the intro and conclusion (it also has references to other papers on the topic). Next time I’m out I’ll have to check if I’m instinctively adjusting angle to attack near the surface. I usually shim my board so it’s parallel with the water when the board is just above the water and maybe I’d be better off with a different angle. [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/348498246\_Performance\_of\_a\_hydrofoil\_operating\_close\_to\_a\_free\_surface\_over\_a\_range\_of\_angles\_of\_attack](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/348498246_Performance_of_a_hydrofoil_operating_close_to_a_free_surface_over_a_range_of_angles_of_attack) ---
**Author:** ![Powis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8c91f0/32.png) [@Powis](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Powis)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2023, 3:11pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/95 "2023-10-09T15:11:48Z")
Would love to hear if anyone has got one yet? Has anyone checked the v2 torsional stiffness? ---
**Author:** ![Bonifacio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@Bonifacio](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Bonifacio)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2023, 12:37pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/96 "2023-11-12T12:37:15Z")
Got one? F-one or NL? Nothing negative to say about the torsional stiffness of any of the below masts. I have about five hours now on an NL V2 85cm with a Lift foot. Thanks to my aforementioned “finely tuned feet” I’m in a unique position to compare a few masts, namely an 82cm 19mm Axis Alu, Lift X2 82cm, and now the NLV2. No back to back testing unfortunately and a wide variety of conditions so bear that in mind (but remember my feet). Stiffest ‘feeling’ by a wide margin, the Axis 19mm alu. 2nd stiffest, the NLV2 but interestingly the Lift X2 felt roughly as stiff to me despite the numbers. That said both the latter masts are adequately stiff for good control. Drag, there’s a small but noticeable difference between the NL and Lift, especially when you’re up high on the mast. We just had two back to days of 3-4 meter swell with periods approaching 75 meters. Can’t stay with these mountains for long but you can get up some serious speed for a while, peel off and repeat. The NL was solid and predictable at eye watering speed. Gotta say, the extra 3cm saved the day more than once and I had said I would never own another mast over 82cm. No need to mention the 19mm alu, we’re all familiar (great mast for a different purpose). So yes, my feet are happy with the NLV2. ---
**Author:** ![Matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Matt](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Matt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 11:29am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/97 "2023-12-06T11:29:45Z")
[![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/progressionproject/original/2X/6/67279f837339933da8eff295b84bf6880148e198.jpeg "Cedrus vs Katana vs NoLimitz vs Progression Project mast review and comparison") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RftkMbhcEnI&t=905) ---
**Author:** ![foilstate](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/foilstate/32/1503_2.png) [@foilstate](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/foilstate)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 12:41pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/98 "2023-12-06T12:41:51Z")
Excellent review and effort to put this together! Would be keen to hear other reviews, NL vs Cedrus ---
**Author:** ![Velocicraptor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Velocicraptor](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Velocicraptor)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/99 "2023-12-06T13:50:06Z")
Also very curious to hear comparison between Cedrus wing vs Cedrus surf. How much difference in flex, glide, speed? Under what conditions can you get the surf to ventilate (if any)? Also FOne, AFS and the new Axis masts (can’t normalize the foil though). ---
**Author:** ![JohnVu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@JohnVu](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/JohnVu)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 4:54am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/100 "2023-12-07T04:54:50Z")
The beauty of the Cedrus Evo (and NL V2)to me is it seems so far to be on par with the best masts out there and you can fit what ever your favorite foils on it, not locked into one brand. ---
**Author:** ![beepityboppityboop](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/beepityboppityboop/32/6245_2.png) [@beepityboppityboop](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/beepityboppityboop)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 11:42am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/101 "2023-12-09T11:42:06Z")
Pretty psyched to hear how good the Cedrus felt in that video, secretly been hoping their mast is the “best” due to not being locked in to a vendor. Also super surprised to see the chord length difference between those other masts while seemingly somehow being stiffer? Sounds unreal ---
**Author:** ![Mikedubs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@Mikedubs](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Mikedubs)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886/102 "2023-12-10T16:54:23Z")
I thought with the nolimitz you had to pick one adapter that was fused to the mast? So you couldnt interchange. [Previous page](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/opinions-no-limitz-v2-especially-vs-new-f-one-hm-14-mast/2886.md?page=6)