The wind was pretty typical for that stretch if on the gusty side. You can see I got a lift in the middle of the last upwind leg but that was also a big hole so I was going a bit slower. There’s often a funky bit of wind right around there and it was extra funky that day. I made the mistake of dropping off foil to check for grass instead of just jumping on a bump and got stuck off foil for a while. I had a great run once I got the Zap stowed away until just before NB where the eddy was kicking in and it was pretty much glassy for the last mile or so. Always a bit sketchy this time of year
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I have the same feeling about the Zap 4.0, I was thinking I might get a 5.0 but I’m not sure I can effectively douse & stow it. I’m also wondering if Flysurfer measure area differently, I laid the zap over my 5.0 PRv2 and it doesn’t look like a full m2 smaller
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I like the dedication. Already have a hybrid 4.3 and a Orbit 4.5 in the quiver, and you order a Zap 4.0
I am guessing the Orbit needs a few sessions before you really get the best out of it.
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Yes that’s the plan! Doing it for science 
I will try to collect as much data as possible to have reliable averages
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Hopefully I will soon get the AB 4.3 delivered, and we can have a proper line up test
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Ah that would be awesome! 
Agree with @J_L the upwind of ZAP is pretty amazing, have used the 4,0 m² and the 5,0 m²
A comparison of Orbit and ZAP would be interesting, no doubt one of those is actually the upwind king. And likely with both you can have 50% of the time on the wave also without the help of current.
Sorry no tracks yet, but definitely had tacks significant smaller than 90° which is a bit of a problem when riding in crowded spots as nobody expects that you ride those angles at least not without kite race foil gear.
Packing hasn’t been a problem even not the 5,0 m² in flat water conditions, but for sure it is no beginner or intermediate wing for that, and I am used much longer lines from my Peaks.
I have chosen the 4,0 m² ZAP as the 5,0 m² is not an ultra light wind parawing for my 62 kg, as when the wind is around 10 knts and it is maybe even wet, it gets really hard to have it flying and so to start and also to ride downwind with big slow foils. It is a extrem two trick pony: Upwind and range, but not low wind or riding slow downwind. But I still have a 5,5 m² Peak4 for that.
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Upwind VMG´s between 6 and 8 knots and optimal foils/windconditions you describe match my current speeds/findings here in north german bay conditions.
Riding egded hard and a size between 4 and 3.2m² seems to be optimal. With more wind and smaller PW sizes below 3m the active lift generating area seems to be comparatively low to the drag of board rider etc. Even Backpack seems to affect the angles noticably when riding well powered on 2.5m.
What could help here is doubleskins with bigger area and range and better L/D above 25-30kts.
What works very well for light winds (8-12knots) for me currently is to use a closed cell foil kite for upwind and paddle downwind on dw board.
Below you see the track of using a 1500cm² AR13 1400mm span pump foil prototype with an AFS BB V2 115lL dw board and a 75cm mast pulled by a 6m² AR5.2 freeride foilkite on 15m lines.
To upwind 6,6km it took around 27 minutes roughly 8kts VMG. This is very good speeds on that big pump foil neccesairy to ride the tiny bumps dw. Compared to my biggest parawing in those light winds I would need to do probably twice as many tacks if not more, defenetely 50-60min upwind…About 5 min packing up the kite and putting it in the back of my ride engine vest changing to the paddle. The downwind part is then around 7.7knots avg speed so the ratio is around 50/50%
In more windy conditions around 20 knots the vmg using a faster 900 cm² AR 14 foil paired with the 6m foilkite on dw gear goes up to around 9-10knots VMG with average speeds around 15-16knots. Angles are then not wildly better than what I would do on SS parawings but the straight line speed is around 3-4knots higher.
To reach near freeride foilkite kitefoil speeds and VMG´s is probably possible in one to two years even with single skins if depower systems allow for more instant and more precise control and in wind conditions where its not too bumpy so the shear layer near the water level is not effecting the parawing so badly. The top speeds I reach on my Core Lotus upwind is actually not so bad but maintaining those feels way easier on a kite given the clean air if flies in and the better power control with the kite bar.
Of course parawinging 95 from 100 times instead of this kitefoil/paddle mix because overall ease of session but it´s nice to get inspired from time to time where the potential for parawings is in 2-3 years time compared to the foilkite which is I think the best L/D wind driven upwind device we currently have besides hard wingsails.
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Super interesting! Thank you for all the info! 
The upwind with a closed cell foil kite in 8-12kts is probably going to be hard to beat with a parawing for a while.. but who knows maybe in a few years. Super cool idea!
For stronger winds (18kts and above) the orbit 4.5 can deliver 8kts of vmg, and it seems like the zap can do 9, maybe 10kts.. (test incoming) so that would start to be comparable to foil kites (?). Maybe it makes sense to go upwind with a zap and then downwind with a single skin or a paddle/dw board, if the packing is too hard.
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Got another session of back to back hybrid 4.3 vs orbit 4.5. First in 18-22kts, felt nicely powered up. Still on the silk 950, ucarve 130, 85cm uhm mast.
Then 17-20kts, felt a bit on the lower end of the range. The hybrid had more grunt and the orbit was asking for more wind.
Combining the 3 runs that cover a wind from 17 to 26kts, I get :
Performance difference is pretty clear and consistent. Will try to test on the enduro 800 for a different speed range. For me above a few km upwind leg justifies the orbit.
Another point is yesterday maxing out the orbit 4.5 around 26-28kts (?), the limit was mostly my speed that was decreasing, and getting lifted like a paraglider, but the angles were stellar. Once I switched to the 3.5 my speed went up again but the angles got worse by a few degrees. So they like to be on top of their range fully untrimmed for max upwind performance it seems.
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Good stuff Remy,
I assume this is super hard where you are riding: Any way to try to balance the length of the reaches? I think the Orbit should still win but the shorter reaches are probably hurting the numbers on the Hybrid a bit.
That is interesting on the wind maxed out angle for the 4.5 being best trimmed out. I can’t remember specifically on the 3.5 but on the 2.7 Orbit the angle definitely backed off a bit when I was trimmed all the way out. Being trimmed in a touch was clearly better in my experience. I think this is likely somehow related to optimal sizing, sail performance, and AR for upwind travel that I suspect may change in high winds that require smaller sails. I just don’t know exactly what the right solution would be at 40+ knots.
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That’s a great point! I can definitely try to have the same reach length next time, and have them long on each side. We have infinite space in sweden so that shouldn’t be too hard to achieve.
For the trim it is possible that a little performs better than fully untrimmed, I have not yet measured back to back. Everything is interdependent so back to back seem to be the only reliable way. And even then, upwind skill level in itself can affect things a lot.
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I had a short session yesterday on the Zap 4.0, I’m pretty impressed with the low end on it. For me at 95 kg on a 780cm foil it seems like I can get on foil easily in 18-20 and at 22-25 I’m getting no-pump takeoffs. Yesterday was average 18-20 gusting 22-25 or so and vmg was around 9 knots, tacking through 92-95 degrees at 13-15 knots.
I still need to figure out transitions though, it’s really easy to have it overfly since it sits so far forward in the window. I did get some controlled standard jibes by pulling the brakes and going a bit slow through the turn. Handle pass jibes are also doable but again it goes so far forward it almost wants to fly under the board as you downturn into the water… Haven’t tried downloops or tacks yet
For stashing, the easiest thing I’ve found so far is to douse and then let it hang for a minute to let the air out before wadding and stashing
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Incredible work done here. Much kudos to you for your commitment.
So much to understand.
For yourself something is compromising your angles by a fair bit I think. Normal Possibilities are not powered enough, foil aspect, current, ocean state, toeside and of course experience which we will all get better at. I think it’s your foil that is not doing you any favours on the upwind.
After riding these two what do you think about your wind range experience compared to the manufacturers wind ranges. The orbit 3.5 seems to be closer to the hybrid 4.5. Maybe the hybrid 4.5 needs to be really pushed with a much greater feeling of having the bar loaded up compared to the orbit? Maybe the published ranges are too far removed from reality in some way.
That is impressive low end indeed. Is that the 780ha from Armstrong? What board?
Really getting tempted to pull the trigger on a 3m zap. No one having canopy collapses or any other funky complaints? Worst I’ve heard is long lines that are a bit sharp. One complaint on drainage on the 6.5. Otherwise mostly positives.
Keep in mind he’s doing 14.7 knots so it could just be that in that wind strength he has to choose between that speed and a better angle. I agree that the angles aren’t great but the speed is good.
Why would shorter reaches effect the hybrid more than ppc?
It doesn’t, but in his test he did shorter reaches with the 777 hybrid.
Shorter reaches equal more gybes which alters your data a bit. So, ideally you do equal reaches on both.
Ahh was looking at the numbers and trying to make sense of it, didn’t look at tracks showing more transitions.
Thought you were implying for some reason it would outperform the longer the reach
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