# Production Downwind Boards **URL:** \ **Category:** Downwind Foil\ **Created:** [December 12, 2022, 2:12pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121 "2022-12-12T14:12:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Leepasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Leepasty](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Leepasty)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 3:50pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/141 "2023-09-20T15:50:13Z")
Last years stock goes on sale every year for every brand. I’d prob say the name merger is to save money on marketing and product shoots etc. now they only need 1 website, 1 set stickers on sails etc, 1 ad in mags, 1 photoshoot, 1 video that all ads up to a huge saving ---
**Author:** ![321-foiler](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/321-foiler/32/5370_2.png) [@321-foiler](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/321-foiler)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 5:39pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/142 "2023-09-20T17:39:34Z")
Can anyone comment on the tradeoffs between some of the popular stock boards out there. Particularly interested in comparisons between the Armstrong and KT boards. Sounds like the KT board may be a bit lighter but also more prone to small chips/dings(Keith Teboul said the fragile nature was a trade off in an interview to keep the weight down) But the KT shape seems more in line with where everyone is going. Narrow/Long vs Armstrong which packs the volume into a shorter and slightly wider board. Shorter would be better for light wind wing but potentially more challenging for SUP. Have heard the shorter boards are harder to paddle straight which makes sense for sup. ---
**Author:** ![Becarefoil](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/becarefoil/32/1424_2.png) [@Becarefoil](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Becarefoil)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 9:18am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/143 "2023-11-01T09:18:57Z")
Between: - Kalama Barracuda - KT Dragonfly - Sunova Elite (18wide) Which would be the easiest to paddle up on small swell and light wind chop conditions? ---
**Author:** ![FoilFondler](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/foilfondler/32/299_2.png) [@FoilFondler](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/FoilFondler)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 11:25am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/144 "2023-11-01T11:25:48Z")
I’ve bonked my Kalama multiple times due to its size, so when/if I downsize I think I’ll limit my choices to waterproof foam. What else is there besides appletree and takoon? I like the takoon shape. ---
**Author:** ![EmeryThrill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/96bed5/32.png) [@EmeryThrill](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/EmeryThrill)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2023, 5:29pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/145 "2023-11-01T17:29:55Z")
> [@321-foiler](#): > > Can anyone comment on the tradeoffs between some of the popular stock boards out there. Particularly interested in comparisons between the Armstrong and KT boards. Sounds like the KT board may be a bit lighter but also more prone to small chips/dings(Keith Teboul said the fragile nature was a trade off in an interview to keep the weight down) > > But the KT shape seems more in line with where everyone is going. Narrow/Long vs Armstrong which packs the volume into a shorter and slightly wider board. Shorter would be better for light wind wing but potentially more challenging for SUP. Have heard the shorter boards are harder to paddle straight which makes sense for sup. I think the main differences between the KT and Armstrong are build robustness and stability. **Build Strength/durability** Keith talked about this on a recent Progression pod, but it’s intentionally built to be handled with care — this may come at some cost when shuttling bag-free, or flying, but it’s definitely yielded a lighter board in the Dragonfly vs. Armstrong DW. Sunova has taken an interesting approach here with 3 levels of build (vapor/team/std?). Learning is suppppper hard on rails of any brand, so if you go with a lighter build I would also keep epoxy/cloth in your standard kit, as well as stickers/etc for field fixes. My Armstrong has stood up really well to my abuses, but it is ~1.5-2lbs heavier than the Dragonfly. _ **Stability** _ The Dragonfly is about an inch narrower per size - for what should be faster/narrower. As a beginner/intermediate it feels less stable under the front foot. I believe part of this is due to the narrowness, but also due to the very round shape on the underside of the KT - vs. the Armstrong is a bit more flat. The deck of the KT board (dead flat) make it harder to correct a roll, than a deck with a bit of contour like the Armstrong. The instability in some cases lead to aborted takeoffs in the Gorge, but made it reeeeally hard to stand when sup surfing in large NorCal waves. Neither are better/worse it’s just a tradeoff - and both are designed super thoughtfully. I think those dimensions could be thought of as also aligning to a more ‘advanced’ vs. ‘intermediate’ rider - but I would prefer a more compact board for Gorge, and coastal waves - and potentially a narrower (18"?) and longer (7’-6"?) board for nuclear open ocean swells where you need a lot of speed to get a small foil going. With KDW now working with KT on future boards (#118) - it will be interesting to see if the next wave includes more compact boards - as one of his boards spotted on IG & AWSI is much more compact. Something that can live in the vehicle, rather than on the roof would have its benefits :). I recently paddled up someone’s homemade 6-6’- x 24" 130L board which would change course if paddled lazily - but could paddle straight with decent technique. ---
**Author:** ![foiloniousfunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47c2d/32.png) [@foiloniousfunk](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/foiloniousfunk)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/146 "2023-12-04T12:56:42Z")
+1 to this comparison. @Foiladdicts provides a helpful comparison of the KT and Kalama. But would be good to compare with the Sunova Aviator Downwind 18" [https://sunovasurfboards.com/en/legends/casey/aviator-downwind-18](https://sunovasurfboards.com/en/legends/casey/aviator-downwind-18) @baldy123 perhaps you have. Looks like you’re enjoying your new Kalama. Have you had a chance to compare with the Aviator Downwind 18? ---
**Author:** ![Matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Matt](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Matt)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/147 "2023-12-17T15:51:28Z")
![CleanShot 2023-12-17 at 15.50.39](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/progressionproject/original/2X/8/81adc5943eac06b9218f6da82d227261b49f00b7.jpeg) ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/progressionproject/original/2X/e/ea5ad2d954ef2ba949981ce346c2a359e34175fa.jpeg) AFS blackbird > **[Blackbird 7'6/8'0 - Foil And Co](https://foilandco.com/blackbird-76-80/)** > > Blackbird 7’6/8’0 Buy Downwind machine The Blackbird invites you into the fascinating world of endless rides off the beaten path. You don’t just sail, you glide beyond expectations, exploring the boundaries of extreme riding with confidence and ease.... ---
**Author:** ![Washout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8baadc/32.png) [@Washout](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Washout)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 4:58pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/148 "2023-12-17T16:58:58Z")
I’m starting to think a midlength could benefit from a rounded outrigger hull. I wonder how they handle touchdowns at speed compared to a planing hull. ---
**Author:** ![jpr1624](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@jpr1624](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/jpr1624)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 3:45am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/149 "2023-12-21T03:45:51Z")
Anyone have experience paddling the F-one rocket sup DW or the new duotone downwind SLS? Wondering how these two compare to the barracuda and/or KT dragonfly. ---
**Author:** ![Kurtis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ab992/32.png) [@Kurtis](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Kurtis)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 1:59pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/151 "2023-12-21T13:59:23Z")
If you aren’t going to DW anymore, are there any DW boards you want to move? 👀 ---
**Author:** ![baldy123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b2d939/32.png) [@baldy123](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/baldy123)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 2:16pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/152 "2023-12-21T14:16:57Z")
I haven’t had the chance to paddle the new 18 wide Sunova aviators. Jimmy Casey is on 7’6x17”x105L if that that helps anyone. But he’s the best in the world. Their shapes are proven and work. The new ONE production 7’11x20x118L also looks exciting. Built in same factory as kalama. Moulded PVC carbon. My kalama 7’10 Barracuda is 9 months old now and it looks perfect. Not one mark or ding. Really happy with its performance and quality. I like my gear well built and personally I would only buy a production board from the kinetic factory for Sup now. ---
**Author:** ![beavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7993a0/32.png) [@beavis](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/beavis)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 1:51pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/154 "2023-12-27T13:51:59Z")
Cant believe I did not hear about these sooner. My hipster twin sup was a great board. Dimensions look good too. > **[Downwind | SMIK SUP](https://www.smiksup.com/downwind)** ---
**Author:** ![Saltwater\_1](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/saltwater_1/32/3526_2.png) [@Saltwater\_1](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Saltwater_1)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2024, 12:46am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/155 "2024-01-08T00:46:00Z")
Yep Beavis I think they will be great. I got Scotty (SMIK) to make me a custom 8 x 20 120ltr dw board a while back and am happy as with it. It is definitely not the lightest dw board around but I reckon it would be one of the most durable, after experiencing a few knocks that I thought might cause damage it seems tough as. Handles well and gets me up and going relatively easy for a 92kg guy in his 60’s. ![IMG_0045](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/progressionproject/original/2X/f/ff64e5cf00de578a03edd1dfcedc8aa6182adfc6.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Matt](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Matt)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2024, 8:43am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/156 "2024-01-16T08:43:53Z")
> [@Matt](#): > > [https://signaturefoils.com/product/pegasus²-sup-foil-board/](https://signaturefoils.com/product/pegasus%c2%b2-sup-foil-board/) > > Keen to check this out, they have been making boards for ages now I ended up getting one of these, custom 7’6 x 19 x 95L for my 70kg. Great general purpose board, really enjoyed it with the pp170 and pp200 and managed to get a decent downwind on the pp140 in a very good 30knot downwinder in Cape Town. I probably need more volume for the typically poor conditions I usually downwind in, but as an all around DW, wing and especially prone in smaller and surprisingly bigger waves, I think it is excellent. I will probably get another more specialised longer board, 8’0 x 18 with more volume eventually. Construction: seems good, have had it drag over a few rocks and no dings yet, no chips from paddling Design: very sleek and smooth through the water, touchdowns at speed with the wing are fine, able to recover easily Foil box: I have progression at the front of the box, FCS boxes, I’d ideally like a longer box but I think nicely balanced Weight: feels lighter than my homebuilt, will update with weight ![IMG_3485](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/progressionproject/original/2X/b/b22854ae5c3c5e5c4d0d2d8ce0f62b45c22ddc65.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![noripplez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cdc98d/32.png) [@noripplez](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/noripplez)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2024, 10:18pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/157 "2024-01-17T22:18:43Z")
Hey Omar–what kind of foam are they using in the 7-8’ AFS DW boards? Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![OmarFoilCol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4bbf92/32.png) [@OmarFoilCol](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/OmarFoilCol)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2024, 12:02pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/158 "2024-01-19T12:02:26Z")
Hi!! I had the Blackbird 6’2" x 21.5" and it did have the vent plug. The new ones have it too, probably you’re watching the sites photo which I think must be a render, the board does have a vent in the nose. > **[Gwen Le Tutour on Instagram: "Unboxing the new @afsfoils Blackbird 8’0” x 18”...](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1s8EOwOSzO/?igsh=MWc1dHpva3M1NzhzbA==)** > > 1,043 likes, 38 comments - plantpositivefilms on January 4, 2024: "Unboxing the new @afsfoils Blackbird 8’0” x 18” x 115L 🚀 > I couldn’t resist to take it ..." About the foam, they don’t claim it on their website, but in the first blackbird YouTube vídeo they explain the use a carbon triaxial high quality layering system and the board had for several months is really though and light. A couple of them are in use by my friends and these boards are top quality build. Won’t feel any flex, and to ding one of those boards, you would have to have quite a hard accident. ---
**Author:** ![OmarFoilCol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4bbf92/32.png) [@OmarFoilCol](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/OmarFoilCol)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/159 "2024-01-21T16:11:23Z")
I got a reply from AFS and it’s EPS Foam. ---
**Author:** ![Hdip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a4c791/32.png) [@Hdip](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Hdip)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2024, 1:23am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/160 "2024-01-22T01:23:07Z")
[https://www.instagram.com/p/C2XxAQVo8\_o/?igsh=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng%3D%3D](https://www.instagram.com/p/C2XxAQVo8_o/?igsh=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng%3D%3D) $1000 off a 7’8" barracuda. ---
**Author:** ![Gneve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c77e96/32.png) [@Gneve](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Gneve)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/161 "2024-01-22T20:47:21Z")
At 70kg, I’m curious if the 7’8" would be good for DW prone. ---
**Author:** ![KaiDoggy](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/kaidoggy/32/3112_2.png) [@KaiDoggy](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/KaiDoggy)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2024, 5:20am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121/162 "2024-01-23T05:20:50Z")
At 73kg, would that 7’8” Barracuda work for DW SUP? The price is tempting! My 85L Armstrong board is tricky to paddle for me. Would an extra 7 liters and 17” in length make a big enough difference? [Previous page](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/production-downwind-boards/1121.md?page=9)