# Skinny skinny or kinds chubby? **URL:** \ **Category:** Downwind Foil\ **Tags:** science\ **Created:** [July 27, 2022, 1:56pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124 "2022-07-27T13:56:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Matt](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Matt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 10:58am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/42 "2022-08-08T10:58:11Z")
@KDW are you looking at the reducing Length to Beam ratio with that width? 7’6 : 14" is ~6.4 L:B which is the highest of any board going at the moment I guess, but seems to be above the limit? Would be really cool to hear where your thoughts are on this generally. DW sup foils as a design challenge is super interesting in that the boards are able to takeoff below the hull speed of the design (if the design is very pinny), once up on foil, a touchdown will be well above the normal range for the board if very pinny. I have been thinking that maybe a prone paddle board is possibly nearly optimal in terms of hull shape, tail design, ie below with L/B of 7.2, and probably a viable if extreme optimisation of speed while viable for chop. Lacks the hard chines and so maybe worse release than the Kalama E3 style? > **[Shape3d Warehouse : BRK KoGiT-12 2022 from Epic JP - TAIKI FUKUNAGA](https://www.shape3d.com/Warehouse/Board.aspx?Board=8279)** > > 12ft Prone Paddleboard designed for home water and loco paddlers in Kamakura, JAPAN I’ve been digging through some old boat design threads for interesting snippets, nothing particularly interesting there but thought worth linking (other than the flexure concept - that is very interesting) > **[Hydrofoil Paddle Downwind Board](https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/hydrofoil-paddle-downwind-board.65282/)** > > Hi! long time lurker, first time poster. I’m interested in your guy’s thoughts on board design for a standup paddle or prone paddle downwind foil... > **[Canoe inspiring a racing SUP design?](https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/canoe-inspiring-a-racing-sup-design.63802/)** > > researching design for a really efficient flat water sup racing hull. Obviously it's going to be compromised due-to the 14' Length standard. First... ---
**Author:** ![Matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Matt](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Matt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 10:59am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/43 "2022-08-08T10:59:16Z")
Very cool. Do you have any thoughts on the hard chine vs rounded rails? Is this primarily for release? ---
**Author:** ![Girvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/71c47a/32.png) [@Girvin](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Girvin)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 11:45am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/44 "2022-08-08T11:45:06Z")
Hard chines would create both a release point and a bit more stability. A fully rounded hill will be most efficient at hull speed but not at release. ---
**Author:** ![gregclosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@gregclosier](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/gregclosier)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 12:28pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/45 "2022-08-08T12:28:02Z")
TJ in Oregon has a Bcuda 7’8 x 18.5. Seems like the latest Tomo is super narrow probably around 17’ ?? I heard those boards are not full carbone but super light under 4kg. ---
**Author:** ![FoilFondler](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/foilfondler/32/299_2.png) [@FoilFondler](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/FoilFondler)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 5:04pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/46 "2022-08-08T17:04:00Z")
My guess is that now that they are so skinny, dw boards might start looking like performance catamaran hulls. Plumb bow, rounded top and bottom (Tuttle for keeping the bottom fast even if round, and moving stance a little bit doesn’t signify). As hulls get this skinny, hull speed isn’t limited as much, and the surface of the water doesn’t have to be such a firm barrier. ---
**Author:** ![Jef\_spicoli](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/jef_spicoli/32/120_2.png) [@Jef\_spicoli](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Jef_spicoli)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2022, 6:07pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/47 "2022-08-10T18:07:15Z")
@Matt I have two other SUP foil board but not down wind specific at all. Hard to say how much the length and narrowness is making the speed and release easier or the hard chine. This board really lifts off easily tho… After that post I had 2 more days in a row of SUP DW runs and made leaps and glides on my progression…3 SUP DW days in a row was mental… frothing so hard!! haha I was paddling up in 6-8 strokes while just sitting back letting the troth push me and it would lift easily. ---
**Author:** ![gregclosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@gregclosier](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/gregclosier)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/48 "2022-08-11T20:36:32Z")
[https://www.instagram.com/p/ChF10bND695/](https://www.instagram.com/p/ChF10bND695/) Kai and KT going in that direction. But this board looks shorter, around 6’8/7’ ?? ---
**Author:** ![gregclosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@gregclosier](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/gregclosier)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/49 "2022-08-11T20:56:44Z")
It will be interesting to see where is goes. Dave Kalama has always been pushing the limits and often going on the extrem (remember his first foil boards super square). Now he is on the opposite (off course this is not the same goal), but same it is on the extrem side (super gunny). So maybe something less extrem will be the best ??? ---
**Author:** ![shep](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/shep/32/3630_2.png) [@shep](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/shep)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2022, 12:19am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/50 "2022-08-17T00:19:31Z")
Hey all, lots of good stuff here. I have a Barracuda. I don’t even try to stand on it in flat water, but when it points downwind and down hill, standing on it is not a problem. Like Kane said, they actually turn really well. Because of the width the boards roll in the turn really easily. Also, it has drastically reduced my anxiety in trying new things with smaller foils and tail wings. I had been down-winding for 4 years in the best conditions on earth (Maui) and the tiniest change would give me huge anxiety, because I was always worried I would not be able to lift it. Now, I change things all the time with no worries, and my progression has really improved. Three more things about the Barracuda: 1.The length seems to make the pump have more drive so you get a lot of distance out of each pump. 2. The length helps you climb the bump in front of you with ease. You get the nose over the top and the length seems to help you tip it over the edge, plus I often touch down right at the top of the bump I am attempting to climb, and with the barracuda, you just lift off again using the wave energy, touching down is no big deal. I put my paddle on my back, and I touch down and lift off without using my paddle all the time. 3. If you are in really big conditions, the big board is like a big wave gun. It is smooth and steady when the small boards are running for the shoulder. I believe that there will be production Barracudas, which is so exciting for the sport! Hit me up with any Barracuda questions. -Shep ---
**Author:** ![shep](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/shep/32/3630_2.png) [@shep](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/shep)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2022, 12:29am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/52 "2022-08-17T00:29:53Z")
3 mos. is what Dave quoted a friend of mine the other day. ---
**Author:** ![Hdip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a4c791/32.png) [@Hdip](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Hdip)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2022, 2:37am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/53 "2022-08-17T02:37:37Z")
That’s the same time period I heard this week too. 3 month wait. ---
**Author:** ![Matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Matt](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Matt)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2022, 9:30am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/54 "2022-08-17T09:30:17Z")
What is the bottom profile of the barracuda? I haven’t seen many up-close pics but it seems to have less pronounced chine and maybe more traditional mid-section than the E3. ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/progressionproject/original/1X/5c5839d4581460751a8f4b506b927b4a0b385337.jpeg) ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/progressionproject/original/1X/b4fffd59d071d0ec6d408f3e3ebe07489cc2ee0d.jpeg) ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/progressionproject/original/1X/458265d77f785d5f4244662e51ce4461a02042d2.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Riggs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e99b99/32.png) [@Riggs](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Riggs)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 1:57am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/55 "2022-08-18T01:57:47Z")
Hi, I’ve been riding a barracuda for almost a year now. I don’t see myself going back to a shorter board for any reason. Here’s a few things that I like about the barracuda. 1. Easier pop ups in all conditions I ride. The smallest foil I could get lifted on in flat water was the PNL 185 and the NL160 on the shorter boards and it took a lot of effort. The barracuda allows me to pop up on flat water with the RS 850 with less effort than popping up on the NL160 with the 6’2 x 21” I previously owned. 2. The sensitivity from heel side to toe side while foiling makes the barracuda very easy to turn due to the narrower outline. 3.I’m having more fun during downwind runs. I’m able to ride any wing I want to ride even in light wind conditions. I can play around more and try 360 loops or turn upwind and bank off of a bump coming at me knowing that if I fall I’ll be back on foil quickly after getting back to my feet. 3. The barracuda feels better and safer on big windy downwind runs. When I over foil going top speed the nose pierced through the water and often popped back up allowing me to continue on foil as long as I remain balanced. 4. They pump very well. I feel like I’m pumping longer on the barracuda than I was on a shorter sup. Especially if I’m pumping into the wind. Cheers, Jeremy ---
**Author:** ![321-foiler](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/321-foiler/32/5370_2.png) [@321-foiler](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/321-foiler)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 4:37am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/56 "2022-08-18T04:37:31Z")
Woot…J Riggs enters the chat! Dave K when can we put in our orders? ---
**Author:** ![Hdip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a4c791/32.png) [@Hdip](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Hdip)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 4:41am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/57 "2022-08-18T04:41:25Z")
You can put them in now. You have to email him. 3 month wait time is the quote. ---
**Author:** ![gregclosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@gregclosier](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/gregclosier)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/58 "2022-08-18T17:41:03Z")
Thanks Jeremy, really helpful to understand how it works. ---
**Author:** ![Kittie808](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/85e7bf/32.png) [@Kittie808](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Kittie808)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 9:21pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/59 "2022-08-19T21:21:58Z")
Has there been any consensus on board length / width for DW? definitely seems like skinny and narrow is the trend. I do get the feeling that when innovation occurs in foiling it can be taken to an extreme, so wondering if 8’ and 18" wide is the current extreme and things will change a bit? Anyone been on the amundson DW board? ---
**Author:** ![Matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@Matt](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Matt)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 12:54pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/60 "2022-08-20T12:54:22Z")
Responding to myself - a pic showed it as being chined through to much the same mid-ish point as the E3 Clearly a demand for this style of board, or at least significant curiosity ---
**Author:** ![gregclosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@gregclosier](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/gregclosier)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 6:54pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/61 "2022-08-20T18:54:04Z")
We will see what is the best dims. Right now (because I haven’t tried yet a board longe than 7’) I would say the most commun dw sup foil boards would be mostly around 6’ to 6’6 /20 to 24. We will see more fast/efficient bottom design for sure. It really depends on where you live, probably Hawaii will see more longer boards. Younger guys will stay on smaller boards as they have no problem at all taking off. But once again I might wrong. My new 7’6 x 18 is coming up soon. ---
**Author:** ![gregclosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5e9695/32.png) [@gregclosier](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/gregclosier)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 6:26am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124/63 "2022-08-21T06:26:20Z")
Chossing your board is not only about numbers, it depends on your experience with stand up paddling, your experience with foiling (can you connect multiple waves, etc…) [Previous page](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/skinny-skinny-or-kinds-chubby/124.md?page=4)