Drop it in a bucket of water at home and measure before/after weights.
Interesting quite the opposite in the stalling.
For me it does not stall easily at all.
1 Like
Come on, why not tell us what the PRv2 does badly? Are you an Ozone influencer or what ?! 
1 Like
Speaking of PRv2 flaws, my 5.7 PRv2 does not always come around a gybe with just the bar, usually I pull a back line to turn it. Even in decent winds. Not sure if the problem is the PRv2 bar size, or just because it’s an XL pw, or I just need to adjust my technique.
I’m seeing some Frigate v2 content coming out and it looks like they followed the PRv2 brief of cleaning up the v1 a bit and making it more user friendly, instead of going high performance. Anyone know more?
I am definately not an ozone influencer as I pay for my gear but i do see the market very different from someone who retails foiling gear like Dylan. Even getting pw reviews from hydrofoil gav has some limitations because of his skill level and preferences that come with that level.
In Parawing I think ozone are taking the piss with pricing as they have set the market price for all Parawings from the start. The afterburner is just the latest extreme example.
The problem is that the other brands are not really catching up with performance but nevertheless using ozone as the benchmark for market price and set theirs just below. This means the other brands are taking the piss even more because the performance is not there. The market are not exposed to the downsides of the products till up to a year after release when we ride with our friends and start to see the down sides ourselves. I listen to Dylan myself but I do have a filter that is based on knowing their limitations particularly as riders and reviewers.
As cash strapped foilers we need to start asking what value a retailer adds when we have to order Parawings upfront or preorder anyway. We are taking the risk not the retailer. We are hungry for reviews but they are all compromised in some way. Because of this a lot of my market purchases are based on a brand loyalty. Ozone performance and quality earned my trust long before wings and Parawings were invented. I think Fone have also done a pretty good job over the years in earning loyalty based on a record of performance but in Parawings, for my use case, they are just lagging a little behind. I would love to see another brand catch up and especially if they go direct to consumer.
On the v2 pr I haven’t mentioned the one attribute that has made me order an afterburner because it occurs at the extremities of the design brief and most riders will not experience it. I ride upwind more than most and the performance is really important to me. Vmg with comfort and control across a wide wind range. Nearly all wings pack up well enough for my use case.
Will the afterburner reward my trust? We will see but I don’t see any other viable alternatives and summer down under is getting close.
7 Likes
I had this high opinion of Takoon too, great track record in making quality gear. But I got highly disappointed / shafted with their parawings. Nicely built product with good attention to details, but if the thing flies like absolute shit, all the rest is irrelevant. Trust takes a lot of time to earn, and just like that it can be gone almost instantly…
(rant over)
Okay well first impressions on the AB today. Typical early afternoon gusty Hatchery, 10-30 knots.
I took out the 3m. Initial impressions:
Pros
- Incredibly well-behaved in the variable wind, especially at the top-end. It was everything I was hoping the Orbit to be. Very stable, ate up all the gusts and made it VERY comfortable to fly. I will say that I’m a very “active” sailor - I make lots of adjustments to the board and sail when I ride, so I can’t tell if it will be a similar ride for someone who’s more passive.
- Packdown was easier than the v1 PRs, not quite as easy as the v2 PRs (but close). Pulling in the lines immediately organizes the battens in a row - similar to the v2s & PowerPacks.
- The upwind performance was not only comfortable & enjoyable - it was fast and angles felt great.
- Tacks were very fast, felt clean and fun.
Cons
- The end of the lines (closest to the canopy) are sharp. If you’re not fully depowered by the time your hands get there, they are hurty.
- At the lower-end of the wind range, there is a tendency to back-stall. When the wind dipped lower, behavior was erratic.
- Bar doesn’t have knuckles any more, so the harness line tends to slip upwards. It settles up against the front lines - which feels a little too far forward for my tastes. I might try a different harness loop next time to see if it stays put.
- Gybes were a little weird. The canopy bends into a U shape, with the center flying faster than the tips. So when you spin the canopy, it folds up, then shoots forward after a delay. Might just need some practice on hand position to keep it flying. I mostly tack, so not such a big deal for me.
- It flies SUPER edge of the window. So if you’re a downwind-pointing water-start person, you’re going to HATE this parawing.
All up, I’m super happy with it. I think if you just want something to get you to the top for a pack down, then it makes sense to save your money and just get a PR. If you love sailing, then this is super fun and enjoyable.
I also think that if you’re a rider who feels overpowered and tries to “depower” in response to gusts - then this probably isn’t your wing. You need to be confident enough to hook in, lean in to it, and push through the stronger wind. It really seems to reward confident sailing.
Will get a chance to try the other sizes soon.
Edit: I’m not affiliated with Ozone or any shops. But I also didn’t pay for them (I ride someone else’s hard-bought stuff).
The dark green dots in bold are the Afterburner. The red dots are the Orbit (Interesting that I had a much easier time on my weak-side with the Orbit). Yellow & light-green dots are Pocket Rocket V1. Ignore all the pathetic dots - those are just me being a silly goose.
12 Likes
Thanks Zarb!
FWIW, I didn’t keep my 2.7 or 3.5m orbit either, but I think you were a little harsh on them 
Your wind speeds for session 1 Orbit 4.5m (12-27) was close to session 1 AB 3m (10-30) and the hatch gauges, IMO, read pretty low. So, you had 1.5m less sail in similar winds with the AB.
My takeaway from spending sessions on the Orbit is that they have legendary upwind. For the first time ever I recorded faster upwind than downwind travel times and I did it without tacking. So, if I locked in the tacks on the Orbit I’d expect that a 10 minute downwind time could be countered with a 9 minute upwind time. This was after less than 10 sessions on them, so the potential is there.
However… the cleat really has to be tuned for ideal upwind travel in the Gorge. I was shocked at how I could sit locked in going up wind and pull in or let out the cleat and it would SIGNIFICANTLY alter my upwind speed and angle.
The reason I didn’t keep the Orbit, and why I think you may have especially not liked it, is that I felt like it really didn’t like dirty Gorge wind and overpowered riding. The day you tested, the 3.5m would have been max, maybe even the 2.7m would be better, but I know you like a tiny board and a grunty start. For me, when I approached the stated max wind the wingtip collapse and sharp line complaints you had presented themselves.
I think that a rider with a more low end friendly board/foil combo than you or I use (I’m 87kg 6’ 66l 720s) might find the Orbit low end to be fantastic and a much larger sweet spot wind range to really enjoy them with.
I decided the shockload reinflate after wingtip collapse was too risky for me in the Gorge (I hurt my shoulder at Rufus with the 2.7m) but I bet ocean zones with cleaner more predictable wind range would be legendary with it. I also decided that I preferred the 777 unlimited top end, one sail fits all, and more playful experience with no tuning vs the complexity of the Orbit with cleat and need to have multiple sizes.
but I do still dream about how fast I was going upwind…
1 Like
but I think you were a little harsh on them
I figure that with all this hype and positivity in foiling, we need a little negativity. 
We tried the 2.7m Orbit at Rufus a few days ago. When it was flying properly it gave great angles. But it was SO unpredictable in the window with all the collapses.
With double skins (as with traditional paragliders) they maintain shape via air-pressure inside the cells. In any turbulence, the angle of attack is disturbed and the wing can deflate & deform. Cells need to reinflate before the shape is restored.
Single skins (also with single skin paragliders) wing shape is held by the lines. Turbulence can still deform the wing - but it’s normally just a flap and quickly recovers because there’s no cells to reinflate/re-pressurize.
Feels like the Orbit would be an amazing fair-weather wing - but for Gorge it feels too jumpy in the gusts 
5 Likes
Haha, I hear ya.
My experience for the majority of that session at Rufus was positive, almost no collapses until the end. I’d also say that the collapse behavior of the Orbit has been, in my experience, unique to it. I didn’t have that issue with the Paia, 777 Hybrid, or LTX. I think it may be related to the cleat behavior and trim position and not necessarily an inherent double skin trait.
I know your joking about the negativity, but, and maybe it’s a bit overly hopeful, I’d like to find the middle ground in reviews. Somewhere in between overhyped positivity and negativity is a place called honesty. With that has to come an acknowledgement of the limitations of an individual review. I think a real Gorge review of the Orbits would require 10 sessions with a full quiver on hand to actually test them and figure out what sizes to use in what conditions. Yet, that is a test that will likely never happen and as such I am inclined to agree with you that the Orbits might not be best suited for the Gorge.
8 Likes
Most of the world doesn’t care about this, but to anyone in Florida in August, we do. The no wind parawing battle.
8 Likes
Did you listen to the interview? It was explained - the lighter material has a thinner silicone coating which is by its very nature more porous, even when new and wears out faster. The increased porosity means the nylon fabric adsorbs water faster.
1 Like
Supercharger!
https://www.instagram.com/p/Dc0VzM2HNmJ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsi=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
5 Likes
The video shows both wings are pretty poor in my experience.
The pocket rocket v2 is better in this circumstance which is representative of what happens when you lose apparent wind in a jibe.
Any feed back on the OG flow D-wing 4m vs the new stuff? About to dust mine off after being in storage, never used yet. Consider replacing or just add additional sizes?
The v1 flow is a good wing but the v2 is better. The main problem with the v1 was a bit of flapping at the top end and maybe a little sluggish handling. V2 is super stable and has shorter lines and a better bar.
2 Likes
Thanks for the feedback. I will stick with the V1!
1 Like
How would you compare the low end grunt to get on to foil b/w the 6.5AB vs the 7.3 skin? Have you had a chance to compare the too end performance yet? i find that my 7.3 skin can get over powered easily and thus the 6.5 AB looked like it could give much greater range. But your comments on ease of use definitely give me pause.
yeah the 6.5 ab was signficiantly less low end than the 7.3 . when i first tried, i almost embarrased myself, thinking id get up so easily, took a few attempts to get going, while the 7.3 woulda been instantaneous. my thoguths are that the 6.5ab is probably the same low end as the prv2 5.7 since why else would the largest ab be bigger than the largest prv2. its prolly b/c they have the same low end. look i get the 7.3 can get overpowered, but i find its a harness and weight issue. im 95-100kg, and i use a thick wingfoil harness. i always hook in and the overpowered doesnt bother me at all, when the 7.3 deforms due to strong wind, i just change the angle of teh sheet and its not an issue. the ab is not a bad product, its not great for very low wind, light to medium wind it will work. but i am not sure why they charge double the price of what its worth.
4 Likes
Attaching things to your CoG solves a lot of problems in a lot of different arenas.