# Unifoil Vyper 170 as first foil setup **URL:** \ **Category:** Foils and Boards - Gear Talk\ **Created:** [July 15, 2024, 6:16pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131 "2024-07-15T18:16:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ctrlb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctrlb](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/ctrlb)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 6:16pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/1 "2024-07-15T18:16:04Z")
Context: I want to learn [how to prone foil](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/learning-to-prone-foil-without-lesson-or-tow/4251), with also the possibility of winging at some point as well. Location: Cape Hatteras, NC (OBX) Me: 140lbs, 5’7" Question: Anyone have any thoughts on if the Vyper 170 would be an OK first foil in my situation? (Combined with aluminum mast and fuse). The current sale is tempting considering it is in the price range of things like the Axis SES which I’ve looked at, I’d rather go with Unfioil to start with then slowly upgrade things over time, rather than switch systems later as I get more invested. ---
**Author:** ![bdavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ce7236/32.png) [@bdavis](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/bdavis)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 7:19pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/2 "2024-07-15T19:19:00Z")
Might be big for your weight. Maybe the 150 but I think you’d be better suited to the 130. The Vypers are really good foils ---
**Author:** ![ctrlb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctrlb](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/ctrlb)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/3 "2024-07-15T19:31:49Z")
Thanks for the insight. I too am a bit uncertain regarding the size, but the chart on Unifoil’s site for the Vyper’s sizing doesn’t recommend anything smaller than the 170 for a _true novice_ like myself. ([Here’s the chart](https://uni-foil.com/cdn/shop/files/foilchart-vyper_0eb79e83-c148-496c-acb0-4fa08c25b57b.png?v=1663730653)). From what I understand with beginning prone, it’s a hard balance act between having a foil that can both fly with reasonable effort, but also not be so big that you get bucked off frequently. Maybe the right call is to go with the 150 and sacrifice a little more effort getting on foil and shorter flight time in the short term, for not getting (potentially) bucked as much? ---
**Author:** ![bdavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ce7236/32.png) [@bdavis](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/bdavis)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 7:47pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/4 "2024-07-15T19:47:12Z")
I think a smaller foil is better to learn on and the 150 is even big for your weight. You won’t be sacrificing anything, it’s not like learning to surf on a longboard where size is your friend…it’s completely different since managing lift is so challenging. I would suggest the 130, med fuse and a big tail. If there was something between the 130 and 90, then I would recommend that but that’s not the case. ---
**Author:** ![ctrlb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctrlb](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/ctrlb)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 7:58pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/5 "2024-07-15T19:58:14Z")
Interesting and I think the contrast with learning to surf with a longboard is good insight. Do have any suspicion on while Unifoil wouldn’t recommend the smaller versions for novices? I like the ideal of starting smaller because of not getting bucked having to fight it from breaching all the time. But I’m just trying to understand the different perspectives. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![bdavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ce7236/32.png) [@bdavis](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/bdavis)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/6 "2024-07-15T20:13:56Z")
I don’t know, but what I do know is their chart is terrible. ---
**Author:** ![ctrlb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctrlb](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/ctrlb)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/7 "2024-07-15T20:19:35Z")
🤣 ok fair enough ---
**Author:** ![bdavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ce7236/32.png) [@bdavis](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/bdavis)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 8:32pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/8 "2024-07-15T20:32:30Z")
If you’re already considering upgrades, go with the carbon mast, fuse and tail since you’ll get the discount. You might even be able to piece a used kit together for even less ---
**Author:** ![Rad\_Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Rad\_Duke](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Rad_Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/9 "2024-07-15T20:43:26Z")
progression is much better for you, 140 ---
**Author:** ![ctrlb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctrlb](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/ctrlb)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 8:48pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/10 "2024-07-15T20:48:13Z")
> [@bdavis](#): > > You might even be able to piece a used kit together for even less This has been my goal all along, but I haven’t had luck finding setups in the right size, price, or location. > [@Rad\_Duke](#): > > progression is much better for you, 140 Agreed from what I’ve researched but also more expensive given the current sale. That is where I’d like to get to eventually though. ---
**Author:** ![Velocicraptor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Velocicraptor](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Velocicraptor)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 8:52pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/11 "2024-07-15T20:52:52Z")
> [@ctrlb](#): > > ing prone, it’s a hard balance act between having a foil that can both fly with reasonable effort, but also not be so big that you get bucked off frequently. > > Maybe the right call is to go with the 150 If you intend to commit yourself to this, you will ultimately want another foil - not a comment on the vyper, just a comment on progression and gear. In that case, try to get a carbon mast so you wont want to upgrade it later. I haven’t ridden the uni alu mast, but comparing other brands carbon to alu masts, I have found a carbon mast to be a worthy longterm upgrade. Lots of people have been selling Uni gear so you shouldn’t have too much trouble finding a 75 or 83 katana for a good deal. ---
**Author:** ![ctrlb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctrlb](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/ctrlb)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 8:55pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/12 "2024-07-15T20:55:29Z")
Maybe I should just hold out for finding a used Progression 140. If [this listing](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-progression-170-complete-setup-900/5551) was a 140 instead of a 170, I’d probably jump on it. ---
**Author:** ![ctrlb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctrlb](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/ctrlb)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/13 "2024-07-15T20:56:15Z")
Also—I appreciate the other insight on mast. I’m not sure if I’ll be able to make that as an initial investment, but I’ll put it high on the priority list. ---
**Author:** ![beepityboppityboop](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/forum.progressionproject.com/beepityboppityboop/32/6245_2.png) [@beepityboppityboop](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/beepityboppityboop)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 9:44pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/14 "2024-07-15T21:44:39Z")
> [@Unifoil Vyper 150 + Medium Fuse](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-150-medium-fuse/5642): > > This foil was used very little and is in like new condition. Thought I could use it for prone but was too difficult for paddle prone for my level. I’m willing to let both wing and fuse go for $200 + ship. If you want more pics or video, send direct message with your phone. 130 sounds pretty small for a beginner, even at 145 lbs. Idk, it’s hard for experience prone foilers to remember how hard learning is and suggest things that might be too advanced. You might not want a smaller faster foil that early because compared to surfing you are going to feel like you’re going 100 MPH faster on the tiniest waves. Grab an alum mast for cheap and you’ll have a solid set up for less than $500 and you can decide if you like foiling or not. Then you can sell it all as a complete to the next beginner and upgrade. ---
**Author:** ![TooMuchEpoxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@TooMuchEpoxy](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/TooMuchEpoxy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 11:28pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/15 "2024-07-15T23:28:58Z")
This is fine for riding down the line but don’t expect to be able to pump a lick! Once you start wanting your first double then get a progression ---
**Author:** ![Washout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8baadc/32.png) [@Washout](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Washout)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2024, 11:31pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/16 "2024-07-15T23:31:37Z")
And it’s tipsy too. ---
**Author:** ![ctrlb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctrlb](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/ctrlb)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2024, 1:16am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/17 "2024-07-16T01:16:58Z")
> [@beepityboppityboop](#): > > Grab an alum mast for cheap and you’ll have a solid set up for less than $500 and you can decide if you like foiling or not. Then you can sell it all as a complete to the next beginner and upgrade. Tempting… very tempting. > [@TooMuchEpoxy](#): > > This is fine for riding down the line but don’t expect to be able to pump a lick! Once you start wanting your first double then get a progression Noted, also makes me again wonder if I should just hold-off and wait to find a used Progression 140. > [@Washout](#): > > And it’s tipsy too. This is telling insight. Makes me wonder if it’s why they don’t recommend it for beginners such as myself? ---
**Author:** ![I\_draw\_boxes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cab0a1/32.png) [@I\_draw\_boxes](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/I_draw_boxes)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2024, 2:00am UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/18 "2024-07-16T02:00:56Z")
At 140lbs you’re on the lighter side and weight makes a big difference in foil area needed. Matching the foil area to beginner \<\> expert feels off for prone. You need to match your weight, foil area and the wave power. You’ll likely quickly want a second front foil to better handle different conditions. A bigger foil lets you make use of smaller, beginner friendly waves and a smaller foil makes riding more powerful waves at speed more comfortable without building huge amounts of front foot pressure. Lots of foil models, old or new, will work to ride one wave. Linking waves is difficult and much easier on a few specific foils from a couple brands. Progression 140 and 170 are known to be great wings for linking waves in your area. ---
**Author:** ![Rad\_Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Rad\_Duke](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/Rad_Duke)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2024, 4:18pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/19 "2024-07-16T16:18:24Z")
Your conditions are pretty good there: nearly always some surf, lots of empty sandbars. Therefore you are going to learn quickly and love surf foiling (because it is awesome) and want a great setup within about 2 months. I’ll tell you it straight: Vypers basically suck and are nearly worthless, the only people who actually like them are tow-foilers because they “surf great” but all the old crappy wings surf great, true prone foils need to surf great AND pump great. Just get a progression 140 now and save the hassle/expense of upgrading. Also you should look into winging and downwind, hatteras is a great spot. I was just there having a blast three weeks ago actually. ---
**Author:** ![JonnieTyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@JonnieTyler](https://forum.progressionproject.com/u/JonnieTyler)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2024, 4:48pm UTC](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131/20 "2024-07-16T16:48:16Z")
I’m also 5’7", 140 lb. I’ve only tow foiled with the Vyper 170. It was easy to ride, very pitch stable, hard to pump. For a light weight, just get a used Lift 150 Surf V2. Good foil for beginners and rippers, but it takes a lot of energy to pump. Once you want to start linking waves with less effort, get a used Lift 120HA or 150HAX. [Next page](https://forum.progressionproject.com/t/unifoil-vyper-170-as-first-foil-setup/6131.md?page=2)