Anyone have much experience with sinker midlengths yet? Wondering how low people are successfully dropping before they need to upsize wing/foil vs a neutral buoyancy board.
I think this is a lot like the narrow board vs wide board discussion. If you’re in good winds and above average fitness and ability, it might be a significant difference in that you could ride a sinker and a small wing. But for gusty, choppy conditions and average ability and fitness, my impression has been that the only benefit is less penaltly for touching down on mistakes like tacks and then getting back up quicker. But as I mostly either make them, or blow them, the struggle in the water to get back up is more about being powered up for me and I prefer a wider sinker to climp up on. In this regard, that’s why the Omen Flux is much easier to ride as a sinker.
I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying you don’t think there’s much difference in a wide board vs a narrow board?
Im saying that like a wide board vs a narrow board of say floater volume, the end user is a more important factor. For me, an Armstrong 5’9 is more difficult than a Flux 60, so any advantage regarding as you asked about in terms of smaller wing or foil is moot as I still need wing power to stabilize and haul my ass out of the water.
Just ordered a 5’8 Amos Kruizer to make my prone surfing easier. As its fairly wide and long, i bet Ill be able to wing it much easier than my current 4’8 of same volume which I dont and cant wing!
Interesting. I find there to be a dramatic difference on the water and in the air with skinny vs wide boards.
Agreed. Skinny is the way to go. Faster take off and harder carving.
Agreed. And underwater as well. You have to decide which works best for you. I need the power of the wing to stabilize myself as I get to my feet, so a midlength 5’9"at 60 liters and 18in isnt going to let me ride a smaller foil and wing than a 60 liter 5’2" and 22". And if im that powered, the shorter board is more fun for me. At 80 liters which is just starting to be a sinker for me at 195lbs, then the midlength has some tangible benefits, but its not the end all, game changer that some proclaim them to be.
Interesting feedback. For me I can’t go wider than 20” again. I demoed the 60l 5’2”x21” omen the other day and didn’t have issues getting up with my 2.5m and 1050 in a little under 30 knots of wind, so pretty windy. I did have issues catching the rails on turns though, so I’ve got to stay skinny!
I use a 5’1 x 20 50L at 90kg.
Gets going really easy way better than my old 4’9 65L and it akk ok so feels way better on waves, no way I’d go back to short and wide
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Thats an exciting report to hear @Leepasty. I’m at 86kg and don’t think I’m brave enough to jump that low and short. I’m thinking about easing into it with a 5’9" x 20" 65l!
At 165 lb I’m using a narrow 5’6” @55 liters. It works good in lighter winds too so I sold my light wind board. I wouldn’t go too much smaller for a daily driver. When it’s 20kts+ I’m on the 33L.
I weigh 195lbs and I am on a 48l Omen. It works great for me even in light winds. It just starts so easily once it’s on the surface. To get it to the surface in light winds(10-15) I use my 8m CWC though. If it’s steady 15 I use my Stike v3 5.5. If I had a grunty 6m I might not need my 8m as often.
I’ll be honest though with the introduction of the parawing I am wishing I had something in the 60l ballpark as I know at that volume getting to the surface is easy. The 48l does take solid technique with a wing so I am guessing with a parawing I would be pretty limited on the low end.
I will add too that with the narrow Omen Flux I have no trouble starting my p125 as long as it’s hitting 15 in the gusts.
Don’t think you need that much volume if going when it’s windy. My biggest foil is 850 whizz and can go on the 50L no probs in 15knts with 5.5 unit dlab
I have a 650, 750 (favorite), and 1050 for foils but my largest wing is a 4m.
But you are in gorge so no probs as it’s windy
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The Omen Flux 60 isn’t a “wide” board. At 60L 21" is still a below average width wingboard.
I have two boards of the same design, one is a semi-sinker 80L 6’0" x 19.5" and the other is a full sinker 65L 5’7" x 18.25". I’m 95KG, so both will sink without some wing power, but the 80 slogs a lot better. If it’s too light to get on foil, the 65 will sink deep & I can’t stand on it like that for long. If there’s enough wind to fly my wing reliably, the 80 will stay at the surface and I can slog along to get to the windline or be ready for a gust to pop up on foil more quickly.
I haven’t done careful back to back testing, but they feel very close as far as ease of getting on foil once the wind is strong enough to get on foil at all.
So for me, if you need to slog to the windline or pop up in brief gusts, something in the - 15L semi-sinker range is probably best. If you don’t spend a lot of time slogging, the full sinker might be better but to be honest, I don’t feel a very big gain in feel going to the 65 vs the 80. There might even be some compromises on the smaller board, my feet hang off the edge while switching stance more often and it might be a bit less forgiving on splashdowns with the shorter nose.
I’ve done Pocketwing downwinders on the 80L and I would not go any lower volume for that. I think the ideal board for para/pocketwinging is probably something around = bodyweight and maybe 6’6" -7’0" for me at least. I’ve used DW boards as well and the shorter board is easier to deal with but it would be nice to have a bit more length and volume to paddle/slog to the wind/bumps and help with takeoff speed.
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Im 80kg and have a 5’ 60L, and a 5’9" 80L. both are between 20-21" width. I honestly don’t find much benefit to the bigger board in terms of low end and use the smaller board 90% of the time. If anything, I find the neutral volume board kind of challenging due to how it interacts with surface conditions and I am probably going to sell it and get a 6’ 60L. That might also have to do with the displacement hull on the bigger board vs more of a hard chine, planing hull on the small baord. My experience is that volume doesn’t really improve efficiency much and getting a -20L board to the surface is no problem, even in light wind. I think a -20 sinker is going to have better feel of the foil and more stability when getting up with a small wing vs a higher volume board of the same dims. The wind where I ride rarely just dies, so slogging isn’t really a consideration for me, but I’d be comfortable slogging a -20 board if it ever came down to it.
FYI, I posted almost the same question on Seabreeze.
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Alright trigger pulled! Going with a custom Sunova Pilot. 5’9"x20"x4.5" 65l. That puts it at -21l plus winter gear. I don’t have a lead time on it yet but it will be a mid winter arrival for sure.
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I’m 90kg, I would have chosen same dimensions as yours for the gorge.
My last day in Rufus I tried the Armstrong mid-length 65L with their HA 680 in marginal wind.
The owner of the board was your weight and he was on the Armstrong 3.5M.
I was using my 4.3 I was up and running right away.
Any reason you went you went with the Pilot rather than the familiar Carver model?