Question only concerns pumping, and not turning. I understand foil section matters and every brands MA and HA wings are different, but lets assume we are talking about the latest and greatest, highly reviewed, wings with great low end.
- What would the difference be between going from a 1000cm AR 8 to:
A. 1100/1200cm AR 8 wing
B. 800/900cm AR 10 wing
- Which of the above would be better going against the wind?
I feel like for A., you will just go slightly slower, with a bit better of a low end, so it would be more forgiving and slightly less demanding on the cadence. Because the wing is larger and same AR, you will also be a little less efficient in covering the same amount of distance.
I feel like for B, you will go faster, pump effort will be similar to the 1000 AR8, due to the 800/900 being higher aspect, and thus able to cover more distance with the same amount of effort. Downside is a higher low end, meaning it will be less forgiving, however, new foil designs have better and better low end to the point where it is comparable to the MA.
For going against the wind, I feel like going to a bigger MA wing wont help as youre just adding drag upon more drag from the wind. The only way to go against the wind is to go really fast and keep efficiency high, which means a HA wing is the way to go.
So, for me atleast, Aspect Ratio is a useless number. Span is the number that matters. For the purposes of “How good does it pump?” wings of the same span pump about the same, the smaller area ones (higher AR) just cover more distance.
Are you talking about 2 wings of the same span but different areas? They’re going to pump the same - meaning you’ll be up on foil roughly the same amount of time just cover different distances based on the different speeds.
The bigger span one is going to go into the wind better - whichever one that is.
Given the same span, between a MA and a HA foil.
You are saying both pumps the same, but HA will go further.
Comparing a 1000span, 1100cm MA versus 850cm HA, The HA will be alot more easier to manuever and turn, as well as negotiate bigger wave take offs.
I can give you one concrete example that counters the point that span is what matters.
Spitfire 900 vs. ART-pro 1051
I own both and ride them both a lot in the waves. You have to be absolutely perfect to pump the 1051, whereas the 900 pumps much much easier despite being a much smaller span. I have to be going mach 2 to pump the 1051 and if I lose any speed, its over. The 900 pumps great at both slow speed and fast speed.
How would you compare the 900 to the 1099 then? Surely the 1099 is more efficient and easier to pump long durations than the 900?
Your factors and the responses disregard foil section, which makes a massive difference in foil performance. The Lift 120 is a good example of a small foil that outperforms its size with regard to lift and pumpability
Obviously other design elements(like foil section) and material concerns(on a super thin, giant span wing flex will be an issue - sooner for bigger riders) impact how foils turn and pump! What i said above was an attempt to distil some ride charachteristics down to just the numbers. Like if a designer kept span the same and just altered the chord what would it ride like(assuming other design elements were consistent).
The reason why for a given span(same section, etc) a wing is going to pump about the same regardless of the changes in chord/area is because as you decrease chord the area decreases - requiring more speed - but it also goes faster - because of the thinner section. If your keeping the span about the same these things happen at about the same rate.
As a practical example i’m currently riding a gofoil RS850(850 sq cm, 930 cm span) and its my small wave pump around setup(big span pumps small chord goes fast) compared to the RS 1000 (1000 sq cm, 815 span) which is my big wave, doesn’t pump, control the power setup (small span doesnt pump - larger chord controls the speed)
At any rate i don’t think this discussion is super valuable. This discussion is about “How can numbers I read on the internet predict how a foil is going to FEEL?” The big caveat above - “Assuming other design considerations is consistent” - doesn’t exist in the real world. Those other design considerations have a huge factor(and you can’t figure out foil section based on pics on the internet), and some designers still fuck it up.
So demo some shit. If you like the look of something you can’t demo well shit you gotta buy it and take that risk. I’m in the middle if flipping a setup at a $700 loss because the specs looked right but i fucking hate it. Thats my demo fee on this one and i’m cool with that. Expect that kind of “demo fee” if you ride something and it doesn’t work. I probably “demo” 2 different brands systems a year (average loss $500) and if i like a system i’ll “demo” 2 more wings ($250 loss). This is the cost of learning about what i like.
yes, the 1099 (and the 999) are both more efficient to pump than the spitfire 900.