Does Dockstarting with big foils help prone with little foils?

In addition to choosing the correct foil, pick your board wisely too😂

@bdavis Damn. That looks an awful lot like my dock start board, and I certainly noticed a few creaking noises riding it today.

@silas Congratulations on the success. I think you can get in really good cardio shape just by doing dock starts. At my current fitness/skill level, I’m shooting for 5 sets of 40 seconds pump time, which requires me to rest/recover probably a full 2 minutes between sets. I still fall or screw something up roughly 30% of my attempts.

I have two sessions on a Go Foil GL240 with a FTL 14.5 and the 75cm v2 mast, riding what is probably that 3’ 6" broken board in the picture. Mast is slammed back as far as it will go on the outside holes, and I could probably move it back to the max using the inside mast mounts.

So far, I don’t think this wing is quiet as good as the Axis 1150, but I’ve spent more time on the Axis. I think the GL240 turns much better than the Axis. It also handles breaches way better… probably because of the turned down wing tips. I had one run today where I breached in a turn, recovered, breached again, recovered but lost speed, touched down 3 times grave digging out of the hole and pumped probably 40yards back to the dock. On the Axis, breaching through a turn is game over for me.

Go Foil wings are buoyant, and have a good amount of float… you notice it on a wing this size and I would say it makes keeping the wing higher in the water column somewhat easier, very beginner friendly. It’s also nice if you’re doing more paddling than pumping when just starting out as you wont be sinking as much.

I haven’t been on Go Foil gear in a while and it feels like my back leg is wrecked pumping this thing around. I’m not sure if this is specific to Go Foil but my Armstrong 1180 doesn’t have anywhere near the same feels. For me, ideally, force would be applied across both legs evenly. For some reason, this wing just wants to burn out my back leg. Maybe its my mast position, maybe its my technique, or maybe its just the way Go Foil rides. I don’t know, but thats the biggest negative for me.

Overall, if you are just starting out, or want to try and get into dock starts don’t over look Go Foil equipment. Its a good buyers market and you can find some deals, especially on older “novelty” wings like these big honking dock start kits. I’d love to try out a 75cm v1.5 mast and a short tail, which I think would make things even easier. I bet the GT2200 is really fun too.

Good luck to all.

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@wenis Are you riding an Orb too?

Either way, if the board is creaking it’s going to snap. That Liquid Force board snapped on the third dock start session. I heard it pop on my first run and it would make some kind of noise on every attempt. On the final day the popping noise turned more into a creaking noise and that’s when it snapped.

The board is getting warrantied but after seeing its guts and the construction, I don’t have much faith in it. I’m sure the next one will snap too.

I’m 210 pounds and have a horribly inefficient technique so that’s a recipe for disaster.

Yes. Its an Orb.

Had a few sessions this weekend… one terrible session on the GL240. I moved the mast back as far as I could and never really got my feet in the right spot. I also keep hearing my board sound like its going to break at any moment.

Today I rode @dillionaire 's setup (Axis 1150) and its like riding a bike. I completed 5 intervals at maybe 30 seconds with a ~1 minute final run. I also got to watch him crank out consistent 1 minute runs working on technique. FWIW, it is very helpful to train with a buddy and have an instant feedback loop. You can also get videos to see how much of a kook you look like flailing your arms around like a drunk toddler.

GLTA.

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That’s a bummer….I was really hoping mine was just a manufacturing defect but it sounds like that’s not the case. I just got the replacement Orb today.

It’s really a shame because this has been my favorite board so far but what good is a foil board that can’t withstand pumping???

Lots of boards can’t. The old slingshot Dwarfcrafts would snap all the time

Thought those were supposed to be one of the stronger boards???

The replacement Orb isn’t doing much better. It’s making cracking noises and the front of the tracks are already creased. There’s about an 1/8” divot there at the front.

This is after one tow session and about 20 dock runs.

Is that a liquid force board?

Compression molded boards aren’t going to hold up unless they have a supporting substrate other than foam.

I have broken 100’s of wakeboards wirh the same construction and they didn’t have the leverage of a foil.

Yes Liquid Force but the construction looks more traditional with a thin wood stringer and EPS foam. There was hardly any high density foam around the tracks.

I would have thought there would be a layer of PVC.

I started dockstarting the 1300 then 1201. Then I got code S foils. The 1130 wasnt super hard to dockstart and surprisingly the 860r is actually almost easier. I doubt I would be able to dockstart the 980. But the 1130 is already a surf wing that you can prone with. Which means I can dockstart the same wing that I’m surfing. Ideally you want to find a dockstart setup that is the same as the one your proning with.

Meow - I have been thinking about this thread a ton. “You need to find one the same…” based on what? (For the record I would have agreed with you a month or two ago, but now I’m not so sure) I know that text is hard to understand my intentions. I’m saying this in the nicest way possible. This is what I keep thinking about…

Typically when I dock start, I do sets @ my 50% of max. This is because it only takes 2-3 minutes to recover vs 10 mins after a 90% effort run.

So I go to the dock with my prone wing and I do 10 jumps. My prone wing max is 60 seconds. So 50% effort 10 jumps x 30 seconds = 5 minutes of pumping per workout

Using a dock start wing with a PR of 3 minutes (50% effort is 1:30). 1:30 x 10 jumps = 15 minutes of pump time per workout.

4 workouts a week = 20 mins of pumping w/ prone & 60 mins w/ big wing.

In the running world, with all things being equal. The person that’s running triple the distance per week is going to be considerably faster. I’m not sure if these same rules apply to pumping. :face_with_monocle:

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I would compare that to a sprinter that is training by running long distances at a slow pace. I’m sure it would help somewhat for sprinting but at some point the sprinter is going to have to do sprints😂.

If the goal is to pump for time and distance then a large pump foil is ideal but if the goal is to improve prone surfing, then becoming competent on dock starting the prone foil is ideal.

I don’t see myself continuing to dock start when I’m at a level where I’m competently pumping and linking in the surf (not looking like that’s going to be any time soon though).

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Hmmm… I wasn’t looking at it from your perspective. I guess we have different goals. I can consistently link 4-6 waves. My best is 12. When prone, I want to get to 15 min consistently, then ultimately 1 hr of linking

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