The 1401 is not comparable to any of the codes. it does have a slower stall speed compared to say the 1201 or the larger codes, but the downside is that its super hard to control and feels really bad to ride overall, the tradeoff of the lower stall speed isnt worth it imo. The 1201 is probably the sweet spot with axis. I used to prone the 1201 because compared to art and spitfire foils from axis, as well as the kujira2. It was the only wing I could pump 40 seconds into the wind which is what is needed to connect waves. Now I can do the same thing on the 980S, but the 980S is way more easier to manuever and can rip turns whereas the 1201 can only go straight and can easily get overfoiled on waves. The 860R is like the 980S, except it has 30% more pump effiency but you lose some turning ability, but it still rides way better than the 1201.
The 1201, 1130S and 860R I can dockstart from a 2.5m run on a dock, it does require a good run and jump. The 1401, I can dockstart with just one good step and jump, but i feel like its almost a novelty wing that has no real application (kind of like one of those 2m long gong wings) because its so hard to maneuver. I can still pump a bit longer on the 1201 then the 1130 and 860R duration-wise, but the code wings are just so much more effiicent than axis, so you’ll cover way more ground.
I’ve only had a few sessions so I need more time to get my thoughts on the 1075R which i recently got. but so far it does seem close to the 1201, Im not sure, but it may have a slightly higher stall speed than the 1201… Downwind wise, its very close to the 1201, but if you put a short fuse and a smaller tail on the 1075R, it’ll feel way more easier to ride, probably similar to a 999 ART.
Overall, if your gonna get the 1201, u may as well get the code 1075r, and then start working your way down sizes. Because with axis, the 1201 is indeed a good foil, but if you go smaller, all you have is the ancient 3-year old arts, or the art pros which have insanely high stall speeds. The 860r has a lower stall speed than the next largest art pro smaller than the 1201. So youre on a dead road when it comes to axis because of how high their stall speeds are on their art pros. The 1401 would probably be good for a very specific discipline, but its just too big and wide to be worth riding imo unless youre like 120kg.
What you describe sounds great if you can do it - you are on the gear you want to be on, in the conditions you want to be in, doing the activity you want to do and developing the full integrated skill set. That doesn’t quite strike me as training or practice within the theme of this thread though. If I could just link waves when I started trying to prone I would not have bothered learning dock starts. I would just go prone. But I couldn’t, even after 3 years of winging and thinking I could pump ok. So had to find ways to break the big challenge down into smaller bits and master a bit at a time. Most people seem to need to do this, a few are God’s gift and just go do whatever sport tickles their fancy.
For me to do the kind of practice you are talking about would require solid paddle ups, excellent bump reading and line choice, and decent pump skills at a minimum. I hope to be at that level somewhere around 2026 to 2028. In the meantime I have to find simplified subskills to work on. The paddle up subskill is next on the list, but until I master that I can’t use dw sup to practice anything else. Hope that makes sense.
Edit: I will actually go a bit further and say, based on my recent experiences, that very finely tuned pitch control is an absolutely fundamental skill for all foiling disciplines, and that flat water pumping is the best way I have found so far to develop this skill. As such, I think mastering pumping early on makes everything else easier and faster to learn - paddle ups, gybes, cutbacks, linking, everything.
I’m already bought into Axis, Gong, and Slingshot foil systems. It’s so hard to compare between different foil brands. It seems like everyone making reviews is affiliated with one of the brands.
I’m planning to get an Axis 1300, or Gong Sirus 136 for learning pumping, micro-surfing, learning downwinding, and light wind winging. But it feels like these designs are already 2 years old, and I’m just going to want to upgrade? I hear great things about Code, North, Omen, Unifoil Progression, SabFoil… I’m probably missing a few?
The AXIS 1300 is well over 2 years old at this point. Code is my current front runner for a fully built out system. F-one also has everything you could possibly need. So if you’re buying new I would recommend one of those.
Omen is the best foil I’ve used on the wing. They only have 2 foils right now though. They need 1 larger size and then it will be an amazing complete eco-system. Their boards compliment the foils so well too. I love 1 whole system designed to work together.
Code doesn’t have anything that’s close to the axis 1300 despite having a foil called 1300s. Axis best wings are the 1300 And 1201. So if you’re looking to learn pumping youd be right to stick with the 1300 or the gong. I feel like code is for more intermediate to advanced riders, whereas axis is good for beginners. The lowest AR wing code makes is 9.5 so it’s great if you’re at the point where you’re ready to ride the art axis to switch to the code.
I am on the code foils after coming off axis, they are still small foils, I can flat water the 1201, 1401, 1300 from axis. I can also flat water the code 1300s, but cannot flat water the 960r. Once on foil, the 960r has some special sauce, especially in small bump energy. But still small foils. 78kg
Downwind is harder for a variety of reasons unless you have easy conditions. Pumping in a flat is ultra predictable and easiest, surf is varied but still you have flat sections between waves, so its predictable, in bumps it is incredibly dynamic, chaotic and changes very fast.
I think you’re both unlikely to learn to pump in DW and also need to learn a new style of pumping in DW. Haven’t quite wrapped my head around why, but it’s way harder (when the conditions are tricky), when its good then you don’t pump you just glide.
Agree with this, despite how much I dislike the Axis 1300, I think it still serves a very useful niche alongside the 1150 of getting people onto foil from paddle up in bumps, which can be very difficult, and having a second to collect yourself before you stall makes an incredible difference for learning to make your first move.
The Axis skinny tails improve all of their foils significantly, with minimal penalty. If you’re in that ecosystem, cannot recommend highly enough. And the Advanced+ fuse for the 1201. Together bring them up to viable options.
I ended up getting the Slingshot Hopecraft which seems to be significantly stronger. It is unfortunate though because I really liked the the size, shape and feel of the Liquid Force board.
This isn’t the best video, but I am curious on some of your input. It seems like my weight is far back, and I was surprised at how high the nose of the board seems? My legs tire equally so I don’t feel like one leg is being used more than the other. This is on a PP170, med fuse, 14.5 PP tail and a +1 shim.
I’m on the tuning as you (P170, P14.5, +1 shim) but prone foiling and always looking to connect as many waves as possible.
I’m certainly not an expert on pumping but would recommend trying to ride a lot higher on the mast (as close as possible to breaching) and try to pull the board forward with each pump so that the nose of the board is right under your chin.
Also if you can get high enough on the mast and can get enough speed your pump can be more of a tap, tap, tap rather than a deep dip of the nose.
Per James Casey, there are 3 types of pumps. Depending on your speed and height on mast, you will need to cycle through the 3 types of pumps. Here is my interpretation of the 3 types of pumps. I never figured out the 3 types of pumps until I started practicing it at the dock.
#1 Height generating pump. 2 or 3 nose high pumps. Nose high pump means more time is spent with nose pitched up vs pitched down. Fast cadence.
Gain height but lose speed. #2 Maintenance pump. Slower cadence than #1. Equal amount of time spent going up as going down. Average mast height stays high. Maintain height and speed. You could then glide, and rest but start to lose height. #3 Speed generating pump. Multiple nose down pumps. Faster cadence than maintenance pump,.
Gain speed but lose height.
Once you’ve gained adequate speed, go back to pump #1. If you go to pump #1 without enough speed, you could end up stalling.
This isn’t the best video, but I am curious on some of your input.
My take is you need to pump sharper. Watch some of Gwen’s videos and note how sharp his pumps are. You want a really fast down and a slower up. Your pumps are more just like a sine wave, Try for something that looks like this instead:
Forward speed is key in pumping and that sharp downward pump is how to generate it.
Thanks to learning how to dock start, I have finally crawled over the plateau that I’ve been stuck in for the past 2 years.
In my case, learning to flatwater pump the Axis 1300 PNG has crossed over to pumping in the surf on the Lift 120HA and Lift 150HAX.
Before, I could only get doubles by connecting on the very first wave that became available. My average pump out the back was only around 12 to 15 seconds (60 to 80 yards). I would rarely pump out the back over 20 seconds and conditions would have to be perfect. And I was usually out of gas by the time I connected a wave.
Now, I’m regularly pumping out the back 20 to 30 seconds (100 to 150 yards). I’m pumping over multiple waves to get to the bigger set on the outside. Plus, I’ve got plenty of energy left once I do connect with the second wave.
I still have a ways to go to reach my goal of 4 minutes on foil. At least now, that goal actually looks attainable.
My PR for flat water pumping the Axis 1300 PNG is 1 min 19 sec. Breaking the 2 min mark for flat water also feels attainable.
Hi eveyrone, I am kind of in the same situation as Sean.
I prone surfing everyday, and I for sure will go trying and training on dockstart when winter and storm arrive.
I was wondering, if I am prone surfing with the Progression 125 everyday, with wich wing would you recommend me to go dock starting ? I have a Progression 140 and 170 too.
I would like to sell one of those, and only keep one. Wich one do you recommand ?
Depends on weight. Always go with the biggest wing possible when first learning. My buddy who rides for Uni learned with the 200 and it worked well, but he’s an expert pumper. He’s probably about 170lbs.
The dock becomes a far more important factor the smaller the wing you want to use. Low, long, and not dangerous docks allow for smaller wings because you can run faster.
