Foil Driver, what have you got to say for yourself?

Foils and Boards - Gear Talk
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It’s been over a year since Gen 2 hit the water. It’s been interesting to watch the growth of yet another foil discipline. As things settle down some, I’m interested in hearing what experience has taught you about FD. We’ve all heard it described as a “game changer”. Tell us about this new game. For example, is it mostly a learning tool, one you’ll outgrow in time? Or is it in fact another tool, its own discipline, that certain conditions favor? Is it being used to explore locations that were previously inaccessible, either due to distance or prevailing conditions, think outer reefs and no wind spots?

Gear choices and setup have likely progressed over time. For instance, the idea that boards with planing surfaces were better than displacement hulls. There seems to be some who question this wisdom. There are also differences of opinion on motor position, namely between 15cm and 20cm. There’s the camp that say to start higher to learn and there’s the camp that say you’ll soon wish you’d gone with 15cm. Related to motor position, is mast lengths. Is a longer mast better, due to the motor dip drag reality of FD? And then there’s the foils. Some say FD allowed them to drop a size. Has this been your experience? Are there opinions on the type of foil that works best with FD, or is this more a function of what you plan to do, i.e. surf, DW, wing?

Obviously, there’s more to be said about FD. Are you a fan or not? Why? Is something better just around the corner, I’m think of Flitelab’s jet board? Anyhow, let’s riff on all things FD.

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I have really been enjoying my Gen2 Max. No regrets. I think it’s one of the most versatile foil assists on the market. High quality product with great support.

My background, 195lb experienced kite, tow, and wingfoiler but long struggling prone foiler. My pop up has just been a long struggle to master. I could blame middle age and my lower back but I know commitment to regular stretching would have been a much cheaper fix to my prone challenges.

It has been a pretty dramatic acceleration in my progression though. You just get so much time on foil.

If there is swell you can ride, chips or wind is no longer required. High tide unbroken swell conditions are epic on FD.

Sending DW runners is so fun on FD. Challenge yourself to use as little battery as possible, or see a swell on the outside? Just go motor out and snag it.

Too big to paddle in? No problem on FD, just motor out enjoying powered duck dives on the way out. Turn around and take off outside on a mellow unbroken swell. And then enjoy the incredible conditions with the confidence you can easily reset and go again. Motor way outside and pick off long lines from way out. Kick out and pump as far as you can and then engage the motor to get back to the outside again. This is where the Flightboard misses out for me, the ability to motor out and catch any swell you want out weighs the impact of the pod drag and reduced useable mast.

As for boards. narrow is good. FD is not really that powerful so an early planning board really helps. Personally though I plan to go down to a 4’4 30l board soon. You just don’t need much length or volume once you learn to use the wave to start. Even better if you do a normal pop up on the face. But pealing off the back and popping up outside is a good option when it’s challenging. The longer mid length boards are only really needed if you want to flat water start small foils.

My goto foil is my Unifoil P140 as soon as it’s knee to waist high. The p170 and p200 are a lot of fun on smaller days too. I need to try my p125 again soon.

Cons
It’s still an efoil, you are low man on the totem pole and need to use your power responsibly. Staying away from the line up is key to this disciplines survival. It can be lonely not hanging out in the line up.

It’s heavy. You get used to it and learn to balance the weight. But it always feels better to ride without it.

It spoils you. I should be regular proning more often but am just so addicted to the power to catch any wave I want.

The motor pod does limit your usable mast length. I have squished up my 20cm as far as possible probably at the expense of a little cable drag. 15cm is the right call and the new 12cm will be even better. More mast and less efoil torque to deal with.

Hope this helps

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Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I can relate to what you said about not stretching enough. Aging gracefully does take effort. The way you describe your experience on FD, picking off long lines from way out, has got me aching to get one. The takeaways from what you shared are that I may want to look at getting a shorter board. The longer boards I’m considering would provide a measure of safety on a Downwinder, should something go wrong with the FD or the rider, but I can see wanting something smaller for the surf. Perhaps there’s a board that’ll let me split the difference? I had to laugh at your comment about it being lonely not hanging out in the line up. Isn’t that every surfers’ fantasy, having the waves all to themselves? I get what you’re saying, though, things are always better when shared with friends. Thanks, again.

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I had a Gen2, now back on a Gen1. I can’t flat water start the same foils as the Gen2 but any decent wind chop or small wind swell and a decent pop-up will do the trick. I’m 85kg, and riding F-one 1150 and 1050 Sk8s on an Amos 5-0 x 18 55 litre and Amundson 4-8 x 17 33 litre.
The plan is to develop my pump so that I can take the motor off but at 65 my recovery time is longer these days, so…maybe?
I live in a godforsaken windy city with either small mush burgers or large hollow shore dump, and without FD I would have given up prone, but FD allows me to grit my teeth and just do it on pretty much any day that isn’t 35-45 knots.
And no, winging and down winding are not more appealing, been there-done that.

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i got my gen2 in late spring. i had originally intended to use it to get out to the windline to go winging at a couple of spots in town. it honestly, imo, kind of sucks for that. well, i got the Max with the big battery and that setup weighs so much that it really detracts from the feel of winging. maybe the slim with the small battery would work better for that.

right around the time i got it, i saw the josh ku videos and a couple of other videos of guys doing downwinders with them. i became obsessed with the concept instantly. i see lots of potential. i’m slowing working my way into it. i see all these videos of guys just cruising forever on foil and want to do it, but it’s definitely not easy. i like having the challenge.

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Agree with your feedback on winging with a FD. I’ll be honest, I haven’t even tried it but I can’t imagine I would like it. It just makes no sense to me to wing with the extra weight. I would much rather size up my wing or foil to give me extra low end vs adding a FD to my wing setup.

FD is pretty rad for DW assist though. As much as I enjoy Wing DW I am now a bit conflicted about which I will grab, wing or FD when our wind finally returns.

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As a keen surfer I have over an hours drive to find a surfable wave. But FD has opened up our local bay windswell, 60 seconds and I’m parked,

I Foildrive daily now, flat water pump when no wind and short downwind when the wind is up to 15 knots. Above 15knots I wing.

I have both the Gen 2 and Plus, the extra power of the Gen 2 has allowed me to downsize my wings but maintain runtime.

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I proned minus the FD tonight and then my buddy cruised out on a FD and I was immediately jealous. The only downside is the weight but you can ride way smaller boards if you can figure out the pop up.

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I’m coming from a different angle “I sold my foil drive and it’s the best thing I’ve done for my overall foiling” and I personally roll my eyes at the over saturation of marketing, paid off influencers and if I never hear “GAME CHANGER!!!” again! :joy:

I owned a gen1 FDA+ and pushed it pretty hard in the “prone surf” category. I rode a 29L board with a 720sqcm foil in decent sized surf all while having the box strapped to my waist removing a bunch of the weight from the board.

The good bit first. I strongly believe a foil assist of some variety may be the most efficient way to “learn to foil” You can bolt it to your existing gear, you can take it out in the flats or surf and you can chip away at techniques without the fear of falling that you may have if you had someone towing you around. It’s a great device for getting the reps and practice in.

This is exactly how I used mine for the 9 months or so I owned it. I bought it with the intention of learning to foil as quickly and efficiently as possible (starting from zero other than a surf background) but I also never intended to be coupled to it forever. I went into nearly every session with a goal and with intentional practice and probably pushing myself a little far at times I’d say I progressed decently quickly.

But it then came the time to remove the training wheels, I was worried I would miss my insane wave count and foil time I had become accustomed to with the help of a motor and battery but much to my surprise nearly every session since I’ve gone back to non assisted foiling, I have come in more stoked, more satisfied and it’s like it’s kicked in another stage of progression.

Now this did require me to rejig my foil quiver and boards slightly but I’ve now settled on a nice all round bit of kit that lets me get out in nearly any conditions whether it be Prone, SUP surf foil or Winging (mowing the lawn or surf)

Not having to stuff around with batteries and cleaning and the nagging feeling something was going to break as well as the peace and quiet (for both me and the others in the water) without the prop making all that noise.

It’s also allowed me to creep back in a bit closer to the main breaks as I do strongly believe the motorised devices should be kept well away from others in the water.

Finally I’d say my overall performance has improved a combo of being on the right board/foil for the conditions but also having the ability to work on my pump and surf game without the off putting weight and drag of the pod (I had mine mounted way up high about 13cm from my board but trust me it’s very noticeable)

I could keep going and maybe it’s due to my fairly driven personality but I’m feeling more stoked coming in from sessions now knowing I’ve worked for my linked waves, my body has thanked me for putting the work in with a paddle again after getting lazy with the FD.

So final thoughts/points as I could really keep going:

I believe when used as a learn to foil device it’s hard to beat it, I am thankful I learnt to foil during a time when board/foil/FD technology was so good. I think nearly everyone’s first time on foil should be with a foil assist/efoil in flat water far away from others.

I definitely think it has merit in your initial DW runs for safety if nothing else, I also think they are great for consistently getting on foil easily on smaller prone board/wing but I also would categorise it separately as to me proning without paddling/chipping in/pumping isn’t the same. For winging I think it’s more of a hindrance than a help and potentially even more dangerous if you skip crucial steps learning to get yourself safely back to shore powered only by the wind.

One of the best things about foiling are the different forms of foiling that suit all different types of desires and conditions, yes foildriving is one of them but I feel you are selling yourself short if you don’t put the work in to learn the other forms unaided as the reward is all that much sweeter. That $9k or so covers a lot of foils/boards/lessons/foil trips…

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Really appreciate your thoughtful reply. There is a lot to chew on there. I realized I wanted to foil about 6 years ago while watching some guys DW the south shore of Oahu. They came around the point at Black Rock, connected unbroken swells down past Diamond Head on to towards town, swooping in toward shore picking off the breaking waves on the bigger sets then pumping back out to rejoin the swell train. Wow!!! Fast forward to today, I still haven’t made the time to foil. It’s at the point now that I’m ready to write it off as a pipe dream, because of my age, my fitness, it just felt as though it was out of reach. That is, until the other day, when I sat in the lineup at my local break and watched guys on foil drive having the time of their lives. Now I’m looking to buy all the gear and learn to foil.

At this point I can’t say whether I"ll stick with FD beyond the learning phase or not. I am grateful for what it offers. I will say, buying gear is proving challenging, in part because FD makes it possible to get smaller boards and foils than a beginner normally would. Then there’s the mast. The motor position (15cm) argues for a longer mast when a shorter one might be better for when I ditch the FD. I know,I’m overthinking it, but it’s hard not to when I’m looking to spend thousands of dollars. Anyhow, thanks to you and everybody else who has shared their time and experience.

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Couple more thoughts for you to chew on.

Don’t buy too heavily into the “made for FD” hype when it comes to boards. Initially FD was a device that was intended to work on any existing foiling gear so you wouldn’t need a specific setup “for FD” Sure the gen2 has connection issues with certain boards but as a whole (and I’ve paddled up more boards than I can list with one now) correct technique/fitness overcomes nearly everything. People were paddling up foils 4 years ago without a motor and with much worse gear and managed.

Mast length wise my very blanket advice is longer for powered up disciplines (FD, winging, tow) and shorter for manual disciplines (prone, sup, DW etc) You want as much useable “naked mast” as possible with FD but no matter how far you go you will “still know the pod is there” which can be a pro in that it makes you stay high up on the mast but a con in that it’s not completely realistic when compared to other forms of foiling where it’s handy to be able to dig out from lower positions or push a turn a bit harder while lower.

FWIW I used 85cm code mast on FD and switched to the 75cm when I sold it (and prefer the 75cm for everything so far except for winging)

Irellevant of whether you get a FD or not during the learning phase you’ll probably have to switch gear a couple of times as you progress.

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I don’t understand what you mean? You mean you will give it a whirl then sell all of the gear when you’ve learnt how to foil or if you get sick of it, or do you mean you’ll learn how to get up on foil with one & then change disciplines to either wing, prone or DW paddle?
If you are using it to learn to foil then it’s only a very small part of the equation - getting onto foil with a wing or paddle requires many interrelated skills.

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That’s okay, I’m not even sure I understand what I meant, but let me try to explain. I’ll have to proceed carefully, having never actually been up on a foil, let alone one equipped with Foil Drive. Okay, so it’s my understanding that FD makes the learning curve more gradual. Flat water starts, getting out the back of a set when you suck at pumping, chipping onto a bump while DWing, each of these skills is made a little bit easier, maybe even a lot easier, when using Foil Drive. Easing the load this way means I’m up on foil more, which means I’m working on my skills more. I’m sure you get what I’m saying. When I said I might ditch the FD after a time, I guess I was thinking that there will come a time when I’ll have mastered those skills. Perhaps then I’ll decide the FD is actually holding me back, the way drc13 felt it was. Yes, like you said, there will still be more to learn, those interrelated skills you mentioned. I just hope FD helps t o get me to that point sooner.

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Yeah I get you now. I think however if you start out with a foildrive you won’t bother changing when you become adapt at foiling. I’d liken it to learning to downhill mountain bike by getting a shuttle ride to the top each time - why would you bother using the time & energy to ride up that long steep hill when you can easily jump into a car seat for the lift & have a good time.

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I did :joy:

You bother because it’s “NOT” the same. It’s a category of foiling for sure probably the one best suited to rank beginners but to never experience the challenge/rewards/freedom of the other forms of foiling would be a real pity.

To continue the analogy, limiting your foiling journey to purely e-foiIing would be like cutting laps of the carpark on the mtb then calling it a day. I still peddle my non e-mtb up trails as well though so maybe I’m just a sucker for punishment :wink:

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why did you switch back to Gen1?

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I mean why not just do it all? All of the foil disciplines are pretty awesome. I will get back to doing prone sessions soon but I don’t see myself selling the FD. There are to many days where I can only go at high tide or the swell is good but not breaking for other reasons. Or it’s too big for all but the top 1% of foilers to go out prone.
FD has its place. I understand where you’re coming from but it’s not just a training tool. It’s just another discipline with its own set of trade offs.

Today I was honestly really conflicted. Marginal side shore wind that was probably just enough to wing. It’s been a long relatively windless summer here in Central Florida. I ultimately chose to do a FD downwind run and had a blast. I would have needed my 8m and it probably would have been a session where you safety surf because you don’t want to deal with the start again. And then I would also have been dealing with an 8m in light winds where you’re pretty much carrying the wing vs flagging. No regrets FD is way more fun than that.

You probably could have done a prone runner, but it would have been very challenging to keep linking today. You probably would have sized up on foil to make it easier at the expense of carving.

FD has a long term place in my quiver.

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I had a warranty claim on the Gen2 which wasn’t as smooth as I expected, so the Gen2 is up for sale and I’m back on a Gen1. The Gen1’s shortcomings are known and it’s repairable using parts off Ali Express.

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Maybe spoilt for conditions here but between prone/sup/wing/tow (I haven’t even started DW yet) I struggle to find a day off :joy:

I think it just eventually lost a lot of it’s fun too a combination of it being “easy”, knowing how much better my setup felt without it on there, not having to stuff around with all the extra maintenance and setup and finally the vibe at least in this area was turning against foil drives due to pretty much zero self enforcement on where or when to use them, the etiquette was lacking and potentially damaging foiling as a whole which I’d much rather protect and not lose for the sake of 1 discipline.

I must admit it also felt nice to recoup some of the money (which admittedly went back into some more boards and foils) as it was gathering dust in the garage, it did it’s job it was purchased for brilliantly, got me foiling quicker than I had any right too so I’m still glad that’s where I started but every single wave I’ve caught since without it has been more satisfying.

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FD Gen 2 thoughts…

-Purchased the integrated axis masts 15 cm and 70 cm Max everything 2 batteries.
-I ride inland lakes 160lb / 72kg
–Main objective in purchasing was to wing foil light winds… Yes it works but is tricky to hold onto and think about another item. Then there is the drag and weight issue.
–I now use the system 50% Efoil and 50% pump practice/learning how to ride downwind very small wind swell. Balance practice.

I went from being on foil 2 times a week at best to 7 day a week! If the goal is being on foil no matter what the day brings even for 30 min. Get a FD.

I know I am a bit nuts about Efoiling the FD, but if they made a nose cone E and and E battery 2x the size of D battery I would shell out 2k for that battery!

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