Great information thanks. !
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I think a lot depends on your experience with standup paddle on narrow tippy boards.
I’m riding a 111L 8ftx22" at 95kg naked and dry (so +16). I switched from prone surfing to standup paddle surfing 15 years ago, and switched to SUP foiling 6 years ago. So many many hours standup paddling all kinds of boards.
The board is reasonable but challenging to balance with an axis 1201 foil in rough conditions, and it takes much more concentration with a 1051. That said, even with the 1051, as soon as you get a little forward speed in the water the balance locks in.
If I were to do it again, I’d probably pick a bit more volume because I love riding small foils. I doubt I would go with +40L though and certainly not 1.4x weight.
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Interesting thanks @jondrums , so by my measurements it would seem that you are on the extreme end of the spectrum, but then again you have significant experience over most of us 
Is your board fully submerged when not moving? I do agree that as soon as you get the board moving the balance gets much easier, and I usually paddle on my knees until moving and then pop up to start accelerating.
I do think that for a beginner you almost can’t have too much volume (1.5x) on these skinny boards as it just makes it so much easier. But maybe this is like learning to wing foil, where you quickly stop needing the massive boards and slow wings and progress to something more like 1.3x weight?
nah, its not submerged. I’ve been riding 110-115L SUP boards for a while, and its honestly a lot easier with a foil below than we used to deal with on a surf SUP. You get used to it pretty quickly. I think if you don’t care about trying to pump for two-for-ones then for sure go for a lot more volume. Not really much downside except for pumping swing weight.
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Cool. I updated it with a ‘Conditions factor’, as I’m trying to reconcile what you are saying and comparing that with the Dave West video above, and the general trend towards more volume. Also added a ‘Style’ - bay runs vs open ocean would require an adjustment (I don’t think it is correct, as bay runs should not equal ‘epic’ etc).
I guess this is also mostly relevant to someone new, as anyone with experience would just ride what works for them and could work with lower volume.
Anyway, if anyone has anything to add, please do
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Was just shopping for and almost buying a production KT 7’7 x 20 110L but ultimately passed as I think it’s just too wide, too short, and too low volume for my 90Kg. I’ve paddled the 7’ x 19 100L around in flat water and it’s as least as stable as my Kalama 6’5 x 23 115L. It feels like there’s no point in going wider than 19" at any length as board width is not where side to side stability is coming from. More mast length and foil span. I’m thinking 7’10+ x 18-19 120L which leaves me with…? Probably Sunova or? Looking for suggestions 
The new AFS has very appealing dims that fit your criteria 8’0 x 18″ (5.7 Kg) 115 L
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Have a look at Stinger Foils boards. If you don’t see what you want in stock sizing, Steve can do custom…
I have the 7’11" X 19 1/2" X 120 l. for downwinding and light wind winging.
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Both great suggestions, Thanks!
Manana, the Stingers are looking very good, how dent proof does it “seem” so far? Did you weigh it new?
While I’m looking for ultra light weight I feel like the stand area should definitely have a 3mm high density foam sandwich, not just three layers of various cloths. I’m 90Kg and pump like a maniac so I dent the hell out of decks. It is fairly dense core material he’s using though.
How has the box placement been for your Lift setup? It looks good, maybe even too far forward for Go Foil which rides all the way back for me compared to Lift.
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The board has held up well. No visible dings or dents.
My board weighed just under 12.5 lbs. with the deck pad fitted when new.
The box placement was optimized for high aspect foils like Lift. My 150HAX and 180HAX are dead center in the tracks.
Being semi-custom builds, I’m sure Stinger can add any type of reinforcement needed and adjust foil box placement to any foil requirements.
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12.5# is more than respectable for 120L and I’d be willing to gain a 1/2# to reinforce the deck as it will also increase the overall stiffness. My only other concern might be the simplicity of the bottom shape with the completely straight tail. Probably makes for quicker release but with the boxes so far forward that tail is touching the water sooner in steeper swell.
But then, Gary Efferding once said to me, “you don’t want to confuse the water”, and some of these bottom shapes (KT for instance) seem a bit overdone.
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My knowledge of board shaping is limited. However, I am a life long sailor. Underwater hull shapes should be as clean and straight as possible on the aft end of any vessel to allow clean release of the water. Any overly curved or round surface will create drag in the form of separation or eddy.
The best part of being a small builder is that each board can, and often is, different. There is on going development of the shape.
I know they have been working with Eric Sterman on Oahu with different designs for downwind foiling.
Call Steve at Stinger. (Yes, he answers the phone). As mentioned above, he can make any shape you want.
Full Disclosure: I have no interest, or relation, in Stinger Foils. I pay retail just like everyone else. Just supporting a local shaper who wants to put out the best possible product.
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Hey everyone -
Wanted to jump in on some considerations about stability vs dims.
I’ve been SUPing for more than 15 years first with big sup all-round board to learn to sup surf and then jumped in the sup racing and sup downwind big 14’ boards just for fun and friendly local races, never a high end athlete. And just as the sup surf/racing shapes evolved I see history repeating for SUP Foiling DW shapes- As Zane Schweitzer mentioned in one of his latest Podcasts - It was just natural that SUP DW get back to the SUP Racing DW shapes, and actually it all started there with Kai on a cut Naish SUP Racing board. Industry took a while to get back to sup racing DW as a base for developing the DW Foil SUP boards, would you agree?
So - getting to the point- racing boards (and even some SUP surf boards) evolved to be incredibly stable per width, now athletes compete in 20" to 22" inches boards that are IMO super stable and faster than before. Same logic I find it’s happening or can happen with SUP Foil DW boards going as narrow as the board can fit a feet (I’ve seen guys with their fingers out of the board, not sure wanna go there). I built myself a 6’11" x 18" x 96Lts with a template shape from Shape3D and worked on some of my own adjustments. Gotta say now that I’m riding it, it’s way more stable than the past boards I’ve tried (6’2" x 21,5" 90LT / 7’5" x 20" x 105L) and I think good part of it, it’s the rail walls that makes the roll rail bouncing one side to the other not so harsh. When you have too rounded rails, they dive deep on one side and recoil back to the other side harder creating an unstable platform, with big vertical walls like the sup race boards have this bounce back effect seems to be less affecting. So this is my experience from my last board, and I don’t think making it 19" or even 20" will do any better for the stability.
Obviously, there’s a minimum level the rider must have to jump on this kind of boards, but from my experience I now fall way less, and feel less affected by crossing underwater currents where you get hit on the nose by one direction current and the tail another different one - Longer boards seems to be more affected by this in my opinion. I ride in spots with crossed X wind/groud swells and usually a third backwash currents in various cape points of the run.
So one point is - Dims it’s not an indicative of the stability you’ll get ! Shape it’s really an important matter, and rails and thickness of the board I feel play a big role.
Have anyone felt the same board situations as I mention??
Loving my new board - short enough to be very playful while flying, long enough to get an easier take off -
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I remember reading a KT interview where he says the rails need to be sunk for best initial stability. Too much volume and it’ll be tipier. I just need to be able to knee paddle it too which means probably not under 18 wide. At 19 my knees are already very close together. Was paddling a friends 7’ x 19 100L the other day and for a +10 volume it was very stable.
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It seems like there’s two different thoughts on volume and stability and I’m wondering how much of that depends on the width of the board. It makes sense that more volume on a wider board creates a stable platform since it would have to sit really high in the water to create a toppling effect.
But is there a point of diminishing returns with extra volume on skinny boards where too much buoyancy makes it corky and easy to topple? Having a majority of the rail submerged makes sense, so is this why length is suggested more often than volume when it comes to stability?
I hadn’t thought about the possible cons of extra volume on skinny boards until seeing recommendations for boards 30-50 liters more than the rider weight.
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I think there’s also a big gain from having just one unstable axis to deal with. If you have to deal with pitch and roll, you may need to move in any direction. If it’s just roll it’s one of two directions.
On this front, I’d be curious to know the rationale behind boards like the Amos Bullet…which is over 7" thick (much like the KT Dragonly)…seems like while you are still at least, being up higher on a fairly skinny board would make for less stability…and while speed and the foil/mast address that…I’m not seeing how greater thickness is a plus, and if you want more volume, you’d want to get it first through increasing the variable that does have a clear advantage…length…I should probably stop thinking about it and let the professionals do their thing…
This makes sense if it’s a board for straight line racing but my knees start to ache just thinking about carving turns on an 8’+ board. Even more so with a 1M + span foil.
Design is all about the trade-offs between the choices you can make. More length is going to better in some respects, and worse in others.
In particular length makes riding shorter period and steeper swell more difficult. It’s a more expensive and heavier way to add volume, and going over certain lengths may cause bug jumps in shipping costs.
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Good guide on choosing a board here - seems reasonable and sensible.
- Lake runs he prefers shorter board where the bumps are steeper. Board matters less at the start where steep bumps in lakes are the likely starting point. Then progress into longer boards, which are better for ocean. Longer also obviously better once progressing to smaller foils.
- Don’t go wide, no wider than 22" (less worried about going too narrow)
- Don’t worry too much about specific designs, just something long and narrow that is available.
Another video, James Casey saying that between 1.3 and 1.5 is a good range, beyond 1.5 becomes counter productive
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