I like the new ratio. This is basically the only thing our surf crew is interested in is is it quicker than shuttles (or at least current question, which is yes! Much faster). A friend did a UWDW lap of 40km over 2 hrs and I guessed the ratio of upwind to downwind was maybe 25km and 1hr20 of upwind vs rest downwind, but it wasn’t obvious.
2 Likes
Looking at upwind downwind is what I typically get the most value out of myself. Not just for optimizing the up but actually for optimizing the down.
Anytime I worry about my ratio too much I just think about how long it takes to skin on my splitboard to a peak and then ride back down. The ratio has to be horrible there but the experience as a whole is unbelievable.
4 Likes
FWIW - at smaller mouintains with slow chairs - I’d bet the ratio of up to down on a parawing is actually better than taking the chairlift up
5 Likes
Here are some runs on a Quest 6 m in 15-17 kt. Using a formula kite stance helps me gain some angle without losing speed.
I manage to get 5.7-6 kt of VMG when I’m fully loaded and focused.
I’ve got an Ozone AB 6.5 and 4.3 on the way, so it’ll be really interesting to compare. Conditions on my spot are quite consistent, and I always ride the same gear.
I’ll keep you posted after a few sessions on the ABs! I’m hoping to reach around 7 kt of VMG, but I don’t think I’ll get above 8 kt. (The quest to AB switch is quite expensive, but anyway we will see if the price worth it !)
7 Likes
Oh for sure, even on the big mountains with fast chairs I bet.
1 Like
I think if you can push a quest to 6 kt then I am guessing you will get the AB to 8 for sure. 
2 Likes
Wandering thought…
How much does rider weight impact VMG and how does it change in high or low winds? Assuming you had two riders on the exact same foil, board, mast, sail, at the same spot at the same time, would the lighter rider get better VMG in light winds? As the wind increases, would the heavier rider end up with an edge?
For powered up winds it’s probably like sailing and paragliding where weight becomes an advantage, the limit is holding the power generated through apparent wind and pointing. Super light conditions light riders win with the low end as they need less pull to get going and angle. The transition is probably in the 15-20kts range?
But then the speed difference will also be reflected going downwind, so the ratio UW/DW probably stays the same regardless of weight (?) Or the heavier rider has a better ratio because the upwind leg advantage will outweight the downwind leg advantage. Would be cool to test that out!
3 Likes
As expected!
I’ve had the best results for optimizing UW/DW when putting larger tails into the system. My upwind times are typically faster and downwind times are typically slower. I just prefer the small tails.
1 Like
What is durability like on Flysurfer kitesurfing kites? I wonder if the Zap might have an edge on durability considering the stable it comes out of which is kiting rather than gliders.
Too soon to tell but I’d be interested if anyone had any insight on the parawing vs kite construction ?
1 Like
Second afterburner session but first in enough wind for a 3.6m. The frontal wind this week has been crazy on and off during a session. It has made it hard to get a good consistent wind over any one climb.
Had a few sessions on the orbit but not as powered up as the afterburner session above. Again wind off and on but angles are pretty consistent with just the speed changing with the wind strength. Early days learning to pilot these things.
The ratio calculation seems incorrect on the orbit as it is slightly better at 1.26
The orbit had more comfort even though the afterburner is very familiar after riding prv2.
4 Likes
How do you find the comfort of these different VMG top performers? One thing is going upwind fast, but I get the impression another plus with these is getting upwind with less fatigue. Which one is the most relaxed riding long upwind?
For me they certainly offer a little more comfort but maybe not as much as I thought they would. Because they are efficient they take you up wind fast and no matter how you look at it that requires a certain nerve and confidence to take on the bumps and swell fast and leaning upwind hard. If you have a little wobble and don’t aim upwind tight for even a second you accelerate very fast and things can unravel for me quick.
The afterburner provides some comfort over the pocket rocket but because it goes upwind tighter and faster it in some way requires more skill from me to get my best from it
The orbit seems more comfortable than the afterburner again because of the light bar pressure but as the wind speed builds it also gets fast and can get uncomfortable quickly if you don’t point upwind hard. There is no flying off the back lines in a gust, just lean in and go faster.
2 Likes
A friend of mine has an approach that i dont see often, he uses a bigger foil and much smaller parawing or wing, his upwind ability exceeds all others in our area. He chooses the armstrong HA foils which are not the fastest. When others use 5.0 or 4.5m² with 900cm then he takes 3m² or 3.5m² with 1180cm². So he moves slower at a very high angle. Can anyone relate to this approach?
1 Like
our local who does the best UWDW and grinds upwind like a goodun is on a small PRv1 3.0, a ma690 and a big downwind board to get going (in properly impressive nuking bumps open ocean cross swell conditions I must say) and says that the small surfy foil feels most comfortable and can do hour long upwind grinds, compare with the UHA which requires more focus and attention.
This type of distance covering UW is my objective, I just got a Silk 650 with a race stab from an wing ex-racer type, and a Zap or Orbit in due course to replace my PRv1. Then the issue becomes getting back downwind on such a fast foil 
The eternal debate. Point high and go slow. Point not as high and go fast. Typically they end up at the top around the same time.