This is how James Casey’s world tour ranking should work. It’s how virtually every other sport ranks athletes and if they are calling it the world ranking system it should follow convention. Depth and competitiveness of the field should absolutely be taken into consideration. There should also be graded percentiles for each performance that incorporate these factors. I’m on the fence as to whether race length should be factored in. A win in a 30-40 person race (W Coast Downwind or Doctor) should not be the same in a win in M2M or M2O with deep and stacked fields.
Totally respect what James is doing here and I know it 100% comes from a good place of trying to expand the sport. But I also feel like without including the aforementioned factors the rankings lose credibility. It should follow convention in other sports and should not be a participation ranking system in my opinion.
Intended to be constructive, and just the opinion of a guy on the internet who is a fan of the sport.
Happy to help you prove your point. Can you please clarify what point you’re trying to prove?
In the process of trying to prove your point, you forgot to answer my question.
I don’t know the answer to your question. It’s racing; every brand knows the date of the race a year in advance and has equal opportunity to be prepared. Are you insinuating that James Casey is at a disadvantage because he rides Code? Doesn’t he part-own the brand? Plenty of opportunity right there?
1st and 20th were on the same equipment, 15% differential.
Did Edo rush up the beach or just take his time with the third place not so hot on his heels. A short race like that is so dependant on starting position and a clean start. So many fell and many others came off foil too early. It’s hard to draw too many conclusions when the race is so short. Did Guido fall on the congested start or did he get squeezed on the finish.
My point was clear. The gear is playing a massive part in the outcomes. Hence Adrian sanding a layer off the axis masts just nights before the Hawaiian races last year. Team slingshot choosing f4 this year this year after some time developing their own protos.
The innovations of different brands peak at different times with some brands chasing the race development more than others as it becomes less important for everyday foilers. Two years ago code was very competitive but last year not so competitive. They will be back I am sure. The guys all know what brands are at their best for the races this year already, long before imua.
To quote the great man Ricky Bobby, “If you’re not first, you’re last”
In timed racing, positioning alone behind the leader is not an accurate representation of performance. This metric does not account for the quality of the field.
The data suggests that equipment is not actually playing as big a part in performance outcomes as you have suggested. 2.77% margin from 1st - 3rd, 3 different foil brands on the podium for M2M. In elite sport, that suggests the athletes are on a similar level. Same podium as Imua, indicating consistency in athlete performance across events.
The margin between 1st and 20th was similar from M2M to Imua. 11% vs 15% suggesting a comparable level of competitive separation regardless of the race distance.
M2M 4th to 20th was populated by riders on the same equipment as the podium, suggesting equipment alone was not the determining factor.
In most elite sports, more than a 5% performance differential is a substantial gap. 5th place was 5.25% behind the winner. The data doesn’t support your opinion that the top 20-30 is “crazy close”
Maybe you should talk to the guys about the differences when they ride each others equipment instead of guessing with meaningless statistics.
Say for argument sake the new f4 mast is worth only 3 seconds a kilometre. That takes Edo back to forth on the old mast. Maybe it’s worth 5 seconds a kilometre because not only is it faster than the 11mm it provides better control. Yes kt, axis and f4 have been close for nearly a year but there are still surprising differences and my point was never about those brands. There are great riders riding, lift, Armstrong, code, naish, Gofoil phantom duotone just to name a few.
Oh and that weak Australian competition that James was very competitive against just came 3rd and 4th.
It’s all fun to watch but some common sense must be used just like when watching f1. It’s still about the technology to be competitive.
Big money being spent by non sponsored riders. Hotels in Maui ain’t cheap, escort boats ain’t cheap so people are spending big money to be a part of these races. Especially people who do all the races…gotta be a $10,000 trip if they do the Oahu race, Paddle Imua, M2M and M20.
Nowhere did I suggest that technology wasn’t a factor in being competitive, nor was I commenting on or guessing about the equipment differences between the top three on the M2M podium.
The statistics were simply there to quantify the performance differential. That isn’t “meaningless.” It directly challenges your claim that “gear is playing a massive part in the outcomes” and that the top 20–30 are “crazy close,” because the actual gaps are measurable. The M2M podium time differential shows a similar level of performance across the 3 athletes, and in the top 20-30 case, a substantial differential.
As for the Australian West Coast downwind race you referenced, the results don’t support the idea of an exceptionally close field. This is not my opinion; it’s facts. Second place finished 7.5% behind the winner, third and fourth were 12.66% and 13% behind, and fifth was 25% behind the winning time. 20th, 88%
Thanks for sharing your opinion and anecdotal evidence on equipment differences; it sounds like you have expertise on equipment and testing protocols.
He’s never done a channel crossing before. But Nathan is that serious for sure. They even have a foil related sale code on all florence gear this weekend on the website.
I was out of town Friday, but this replay gave me the experience I’ve always wanted when watching the dots solo. I told James he needs to buy a bigger zoom account for Monday’s watch party!
Yeah I was on a foil trip for the first time in years. I went through the YouTube replay above over the course of a couple nights. Kept me right in the loop.
