I thought tracks were also connecting to top skin through traversing blocks of HD foam. At least I’ve seen that on some boards. It cannot be the sole advantage of the Tuttle.
Tracks are now almost always connected to the deck by HD foam (full-depth casette, lateral insert, longitudinal insert), by carbon stringer or by carbon rods. It help distributing the loads but the mast baseplate still sit on the bottom skin (carbon patch) and is not inserted in the board.
I’m sure there is a NSFW analogy why a Tuttle type of connection is a better way of doing it, but I don’t think some people in the thread would get it.
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I only asked questions that seem to not get answers from this esteemed group. Like cost vs actual gain. Or maybe why did tuttles come to market first and now are very rare. I tried to provide why I thought these things happened but you guys seem to not listen.
so build it again, see how many are purchase because we all vote with our money.
I will watch with great interest and silence as it seems not all voices are allowed in the chorus.
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I moved off of tuttle boards the first chance I got. They took forever to install the mast into the board and sourcing bolts the right length was a nightmare and I was forever shearing them. I’m not going back to having to find two custom length screws for every board and then not being able to foil whenever I lose one or they break. I’m not seeing how the rake adjustment would work, does anyone have photos of one with the shim installed?
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Hi
We’ve been building race foils for wing, windsurf, and kite that are all tuttle, so it’s like it didn’t go away for us. There are advantages for each system, and most will not have much of a reason to deal with the tuttle screws or mounting or extra cost for a mast. Also, for us we know there isn’t really a large market either since racing is much smaller than the general one. There are only a few brands making tuttle masts than I know of at the moment and each of these are custom or special order and wait for a while. It will provide advantages enabling riders to use smaller foils, lower drag at touchdowns, lighter boards, maybe lighter mast construction for some that maybe important in specific segments. Most brands have sorted out the plate system and its perfectly ok and comparable in stiffness and strength (certainly for jumping)… and for most people though the tuttle will not be applicable….
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I’m not concerned with what the industry as a whole, or other brands, are doing. I am just happy that you design masts and boards for tuttle Chris:) And not just for racing.
Was on F4 106 mast and R-board earlier. But had to change to plate mast when focus changed to riding bumps. Now I have a 82.5cm tuttle mast on its way to replace my 75 AX, and probably I will never again buy a plate mast.
If I really need it? Probably not. Does anyone really need a Ferrari? Probably not:) For me there is a different feeling with tuttle compared to plate, and I just like that feeling. Besides, I would go tuttle just for how good it looks.
I am a 100 % gear head, and I am having a lot of fun being one.
I understand all the arguments for plate masts, but for me they are not important. Just like any form of quick connection does not appeal to me. Aslo, being absolutely “monogam” when it comes to foil brands, removes some of the arguments from plate mast.
There has always been talk about board thickness, and how it affect the feeling of the foil. And one of the argument for hollow boards is that it gives a more stiff and direct connection to the foil.
I have not tried a hollow board, and I have not tried a very thin board on a plate mast. But the feeling they are chasing, I can imagine is something similar to the feeling I remember from my wingfoil race setup with tuttle.
Not trying to convince anyone. Just airing my enthusiasm for tuttle:)
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Ok, so far, for a tuttle like system, here is the main pros and cons in term of performance from a rider perspective.
| Pro’s | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| Less drag at takeoff | The main advantage. Mostly beneficial to SUP / Parawing / Wing / Battery assisted foiler. Even intermediate foiler can feel the difference. | Prone, Pumpfoiler / Wakefoiler don’t care | |
| Less drag on touchdown | Beneficial to everybody | ||
| Less weight | Benificial but not so important because it is where you feel it less (under you). | Considering that we mostly need an adjustable system. The weight gain will probably be less compare to a simple tuttle | |
| Stiffness ? | Chris said that the tuttle stiffness is comparable with good baseplated mast. | Maybe you need to be a good foiler to really feel the difference ? |
| Con’s | |
|---|---|
| Lack of adjustability (classic Tuttle). | Need an adjustable version. Detrimental to mass marketed board. Less to DIYer and custom board builder. |
| More intrusive than the tracks. | Require thicker board. Detrimental to pumpfoiler / kitefoiler / wakefoiler and to a lesser extent to prone/tow |
| Not compatible with the foil drive ? | I don’t know. |
| Strength for high landings ? | Possibly weaker for people who jump a lot / freestyle riders or Berzolla-style wave riders. |
| Custom screw length | Having to deal with different screw lengths for different boards can be a hassle. |
Am I missing something ? Feel free to add.
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A new system will prevail:
2 screws instead of 4,
Adjustability fore-aft and rake,
Masts will be cheaper and easier to travel with,
Performance focus will shift from the stiffness of the connection point to the flex profiles of the board and mast.
It will not be called a Tuttle.
Whats not to like?
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I personally think it will be called a long-tuttle
with a few different length options. You can buy a +/-1” adjustable long-tuttle right now (**). But I think we’ll also get +/-1.5” and +/-2.5” options. I have personally made tools to build the later two. They work.
(**) I don’t think it’ll end up being exactly 1/2” and 1” increments. The simplest adjustment increments are actually 26.3mm (1/4th of the screw spacing) or half that at 13.1mm.
I think it will be called Radix 
.
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Yes! Radix is dope. I just hope that it will be friendly for diy board builder.
It looks like it would just be a deeper Futures style box right?
Master board builder The Flying Dutchman seeing the light.
Mark Raaphorst is one of the premiere custom board builders on Maui. Founder of SIC, Sandwich Island Composite, surfboards in Maui. Posted on Facebook:
Tinkering with an Axis Tuttle mast. 10 years ago I laughed at anything without an adjustable plate. Now, with low drag, high aspect and thin cross section parts, I start to see the merits. I plan to vacuum bag some titanium sheet metal sandwiched w. Uni- carbon into this mold to get good torque resistant properties. Aluminum honeycomb core. Brass hardware inserts. This one is for surf, 75 cm, tapered thickness from a 16 mm base to a 13 mm fuselage section. And now with adjustable Tuttle boxes in both fore&aft as well as angle, I am curious how it will come out. I wish I had an autoclave or access to Ultra- High Modulus carbon. But, sometimes a low budget keeps the creative spirit alive.
