Epic Project Blog: Making a Tuttle mast, Tuttlebox, and Board Install

I miss the old forum days (other forums from years past) when people would post up big project dumps in a huge thread. I guess people aren’t doing that so much any more, but I thought it would be fun to try out here.

This entire foiling adventure started out with tuttle for many of us - I personally stuck with GoFoil tuttle mast long after it was clear that the adjustability of plates would win the day. Eventually I gave it up and went to plate masts, but almost every session since the last 5 years, my mind wanders to wondering if that plate drag really matters. I decided to find out once and for all.

I figure there are only so many more places for innovation in foiling, we’ve squeezed a ton of efficiency out of the board, foils, and especially masts - getting rid of plate drag seems like a low hanging fruit for improvement. Not only for takeoffs and touchdowns, but also for stiffness and weight. I figure a tuttle mast can be stiffer than a plate mast because the carbon continues straight into the board, the tuttle makes a more rigid connection to the board, and my overbuilt prototype tuttle box is already lighter than a pair of tracks set in 6lb PVC foam.

Though I’ve been turning it over in my head for years, this particular project began 5 months ago on and off weekends and evenings whenever I had the energy and focus and push it forward.

I started with designing and procuring the tooling for both the adjustable tuttle box as well as the potting tool for the mast head fitting and the drill jig for the mast. Here we are ready to layup the foilbox.

After the carbon part is laid up, I used 3D printed guide to glue on carbon tubes to support the force of the screws going to the deck. A simple wood form is for the 4lb pour foam.

And finally the trimmed and ready foilbox. The pour foam didn’t work so great at the top, but it will be trimmed flush to the deck after install so no big deal.

Next up, the tuttle mast modifications. I happen to possess two identical AFS UHM carbon masts, so I decided to modify one of them. I’ll be able to directly compare the plate mast to the tuttle with exactly the same board/foil/conditions. I didn’t take any photos of the circular saw cutting off the sides of the baseplate because I was too nervous the saw would kick back and get me. That part was dicey. But generally I trimmed off the baseplate and ground back the base of the mast for potting.

The two-part potting tool worked perfectly with chopped carbon/epoxy to fill out the shape.

Finally the 3D printed drill jig with drill bushings to make the holes in the right places. The second set of holes allows the mast to be indexed to half positions along the hole pattern in the foilbox.

And now to install the foil box in my downwind board. I lasercut a router template to get the cutout in the bottom and the deck, then used a hand-saw the rest of the way through. Gorilla Glue filled any gaps, though it was a nice tight fit already anyway. Yeah, I want the mast further forward, but I placed the box so the furthest back tuttle position matches the plate mast furthest forward position.

I hand laminated carbon for the bottom and the deck. Peel ply helped limit excess resin

Ready for hot coat on the bottom. The top gets washers and deck pad.

And I finished a few nights ago. Got the setup out for a SUPFoil surf session for the first time this morning and everything worked perfectly. Hopefully I’ll have good weather for a couple of direct A to B tuttle to plate test sessions this weekend. Stoked!

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Love it, thank you for posting this and definitely keen to hear how the a-b testing goes!

Love the long form content. Keen to hear the results

Very cool build. I’m a big fan of the Tuttle box as well. Are you using shims to support the mast from front to back? Have you seen the adjustable Tuttle boxes? I do like the build vs buy as there’s nothing like riding something you’ve made.

Super impressive Jon!!! A labor of love. Nothing like the burning sense of wonder to motivate innovative solutions.

I commend you on the mast and carbon modifications. I have shied away from the high stress, pressure areas of the board builds aka Tuttle boxes. But I do believe Tuttles are a cleaner, more elegant design. And - If you can shave off 1/2 lbs - 2 lbs of weight then mast placement +/- 1” become less critical.

Really looking forward to test results!

Careful with that PU pour foam. I’ve had even the high density turn to dust with repeated loads. I think epoxy foam could be the solution for this kind of thing but I haven been able to find it at a consumer available level. I think it’s a temperamental product reserved for trained professionals.

It looks like the actual build was pretty easy and the bigger time investment was in the setup/tooling!

UhOh, I didn’t know that. I guess time will tell…

yes! Thank for linking to Michael’s site - I was in contact chatting with him. My understanding is that he decided on three position design to keep it short and stiff. The design I’m trying right now is ~11” long with 9 possible positions indexed just over 1/2” (~13mm). I 3D printed the spacers with 100% infill. To keep it stiff, I used a lot of carbon and PVC sandwich construction in the side-walls (not shown).

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this is really great work! very well done. I’m stoked to hear your long-term assessment.

Any chance you might be able to share the CAD files for your two-part potting mold please (and drill jig)?
I’m actually about to cut another mast myself to repot to tuttle, and the mold I have isn’t great. Hoping to 3D print or mill something better, like yours.

I’ve also been using Michael’s (tuttlebox.com) adjustable box lately. and it’s amazing!

I’ve been a tuttle zealot for years, for the stiffness, but now being adjustable there isn’t much benefit for tracks anymore. I do know that quite a few brands at AWSI took notice (and took notice of the Radix prototype).

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Project Update - I was able to get out a few more days in the surf. Big fast swell has been coming in at my local the past few days. I was able to A/B/A/B back and forth tuttle and plate with the same foil, same board, same mast profile, same conditions. Short summary: I am super duper psyched on Tuttle! This is going to be huge for the industry. I’m more confident than ever we’ll see broad adoption of multi-position tuttle boxes in boards in the next few years.

I have been paddling up on big un-breaking swell which isn’t quite flatwater start, but to get on this fast moving swell you need a small foil and you need to paddle like a beast up to speed before the swell gets to you (850 silk and 900 Enduro small for me @ 95kg+wetsuit). In my opinion, this is the situation that will really expose paddling drag - only thing better would be true flatwater starts. Which I will do soon A/B with a few different foils.

There is absolutely no question in my mind the Tuttle setup is more slippery on take-off and I can feel it. I’m not a pro, probably someone better than me would be even more sensitive to it - so my point is even with my intermediate skills, I can feel the difference. Its real.

My theory is that years ago when we switched to plate masts - the foils were thicker, the tails were bigger, the masts were draggier, and most importantly we were all on bar of soap boards. The plate mast itself was a pretty small portion of all the paddle-up drag and nobody could tell the difference. We didn’t have wings yet, we didn’t have parawing, and for the prone guys - everyone needed some breaking whitewater to take-off on a wave. Plate-mast just didn’t make a difference. But today, I’m riding a 16” wide board, a tiny 105 tail, a 13mm skinny mast and the setup just doesn’t have much paddle drag. So the plate ends up being a noticeable difference in frontal area and form drag.

Up Next: flatwater A/B testing. Stiffness characterization of the box installation vs. plate

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This thread is fantastic. Great work, and interesting to hear the findings.

I’ve been on wingfoil race gear with 106cm mast and tutle box. And at that time I had a similar mast at 95cm. But mounted on a different board. So couldn’t really test back to back.

Now I am on 75 plate mount, and enjoying upwind/downwind wingfoil on the Orcas. And getting into parawing.

But as soon as a similar length tutle mast is available, I will for sure go for it.

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Super interesting jondrums. Looks forward to hearing how the paddle up testing goes.

yeah, I got injured and then took a trip overseas, so that set things back a bit. But I’ve put about half a dozen surf sessions on the tuttle setup and still loving it. Going out tomorrow morning again for some more time on the water. I’m also about to receive new tooling for an improved version of the foilbox that would allow infinite adjustability. I might have that in a board by year’s end, we’ll see. Several people told me that they often like to move their foil just a few mm for different conditions. Not me, but it does seem like the only last drawback to the implementation I designed.

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