Beginner Prone Foiling Foil Recommendations: Gong or Axis?

I want to learn how to prone foil.
I have been surfing for the last 3 years and surf on a 7’6" surfboard.
I weigh 155lbs (70kg).
I am in San Diego and mostly surf in small, close to shore, 1-3ft. waves.

I have an old Naish foil setup with a 50L 5’8" board, a 55cm mast, and either a 1250 or 1650 front wing, (low aspect, old school thick). But I am looking to upgrade the foil to something more current.

I also have a foil assist drive (Manta Foils TakeOff Flow) which I plan on using to help with the learning process. The battery and motor add an additional almost 16lbs. (7.25kg) to the board.
I have been using it in e-foil mode on flat water to learn the feel of foiling. I can pretty much stay up on foil all the time now after a few sessions practicing.

I have a local Axis dealer who can give me a killer deal on an HPS foil setup, but that’s still a lot more than I want to spend on something I don’t even know if I’ll like or learn. I am also not sure if the HPS line is the way to go for a complete beginner prone foiler.

I am also interested in the Gong foils due to their great price point.

I would really want to buy used, but it seems like a lot of the used stuff is too old.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Learning to prone foil is basically learning to takeoff on a wave and ride it till the end. Similar to surfing. For learning, anything around 8AR will work. Advancing prone foil is a combination of mastering turns and pumping and linking. You’ll need around 9-10AR for this. Both gong and axis makes a wings for both categories, but you’re losing like 40% of the pump and glide if you compare something like axis art to the code s. It’s not just me that’s saying this, this is what dave west (a former ambassador for axis who switched to code) also said in his recent podcast. Even an outdated setup will work well for learning. But I would suggest either lift or code or unifoil if you’re looking for that pump and link wing, you’re gonna be disadvantage if you’re on axis. I can’t speak for gong, but based on their product release it feels like gong is more innovative purely because they are willing to replace their old connection system with something better. Axis on the other hand is stuck with their antiquated fuse and connection system imo.

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I honestly would consider trying with your old gear first. My friend just learned on a wingfoil board and a huge front wing and got some great rides in.

Early on, all you want is a wing that feels stable and can go straight - at 155lbs, the 1250 might be perfect on your 5’8. As you start to build the muscle memory and get better you’ll probably gravitate toward a more specific discipline of foiling. Maybe you’ll want to prioritize pumping or maybe turning. I learned on an old Armstrong HS1250 and decided to upgrade after a few months to a wing that was better for pumping.

Sounds like you are on the right track by learning on the foil assist though! Keep it up!

I saved some notes that helped me while I learned here: https://www.thefoilkook.com/foil-journal-1

Feel free to reach out with any questions! That first month can be tough but its SO worth it.

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Wow, that’s great advice especially since it involves not spending any more money!
And thanks for the link to your website. That’s awesome. I will definitely be reading through it.
Thank you

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Wow Meow! Harsh criticism of Axis. Have you flown all of their wings? OP was asking for recommendations not brand bashing. I ride Axis and they make amazing products. The Fireball is a modern freak of nature that goes faster and slower than many other wings.

Most of the new wings from all companies are amazing compared to 3 year old stuff. I spend a couple of weeks each year in Cardiff, foiling. It’s usually small and mushy(perfect for foiling) out front of San Elijo State beach. Check out the for sale chat on Facebook Axis Foilriders for crazy deals on HPS, PNG, Spitfire. You could get a whole setup for under $1k. I recommend a long, skinny mid length board like 6’-7’5” X 20”ish for getting in easy and early to waves. SUP is easier to learn than prone IMO.
Have fun!

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Also - if you do decide to buy something from Gong I have been very curious about this new board from them - killer deal too:

Anyone order from Gong to the US? Shipping seems confusing.

Tons of used axis gear in socal. The HPS is a good wing I really like the 980. Should be on the cheap side to as it’s a couple generations behind the latest stuff

Thanks @FoilyMcLipshitz.
The local Axis dealer her can get me a brand new complete foil setup for $1100. But I have seen some great deals on used gear on FB.
With Gong, I am looking at under $500 with shipping for a similar setup. That seems so cheap…
But I will probably hold off for now and just try to learn with what I have.

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Thanks to Gong I finally know what these stickers are referring to.

I would definitely go Axis while you are learning, because they’ve flooded their entire customer base with so many foils you should be able to buy stuff very cheaply and upgrade easily throughout your early learning phase. The HPS, PNG, and BSC wings will all be great.

Then once you are better and feel held back, listen to what @Meow said and GTFO Axis since you said that you want to prone foil (not Axis focus).

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The 1250 should be perfect. I remember years ago my buddy linking 10-12+ waves on the 1250 at 170lbs.

I used some old giant axis wings this summer in micro surf and was linking waves for 20-30 mins. It’s the archer not the arrow. The benefits of many latest wings is real, but also overstated. Many foilers try to buy their way out of problems. I did in the beginning too. Go on IG, find your favorite foiler, scroll back 2 or 3 years… the difference between what they were on 3 years ago vs now is hardly perceivable from a spectators standpoint. Give Pedigo, Bennetts, or Eric G a 4 year old $500 setup, they’re still going to rip.

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This is amazing advice.

My good friend still rides an HS1050 that is 4 years old and he absolutely rips - he’s even had team riders reach out asking what wing he is on.

Don’t spend too much money while you are learning - especially since you already have a solid foil! Save that $ for once you know exactly what type of feel you are looking for.

Also highly recommend driving to Seal beach and demoing gear with Josh/Patrick at the foil shop once you have a few months of experience. They will set up whatever you want and go ride with you. If you love the wing, buy it. If not, it’s just a great experience riding with those guys.

In the meantime, just get your first few rides and be safe out there! I wish I could turn back the clock to the first long ride I had. You’ll remember it forever!

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can you send the video where Dave mentions the code pump ability vs axis?

Check dave wests latest podcast with Jeremy wilmote. Jeremy asks Dave why he changed to code. Dave said that he got a demo 850 and instantly he was staying on foil 40% longer than any other foil hes used. That was my same experience , the moment I switched from axis to code, I went from linking maybe 1 wave to 4-5, instantly. It literally felt like going from beginner-intermediate to pro instantly.

wow nice! I’m on axis for prone and in search of exactly that! Have you tried Unifoil Progressions? If so how do they compare to code/ Axis?

I tried the 170 once and it had a super low stall speed. It felt awkward to turn/control on a wave. Despite the super low stall speed, code pumps better because it’s higher aspect than the progression. I would describe the code as a pump wing that can turn surprisingly well for a “pump wing”.

The mid aspect spitfire/kj2/afs silk all turn better but lack the glide. Code knows this which is why they are coming out with a mid aspect surf wing to fill that gap.

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You need to clarify whether you’re referring to the “S” or “R” series from code.

This is a bit misleading of a statement.

  • The podcast in question Dave states “I just never fall” (about the Code S)
  • Dave also states that his “foiling improved by 30%” switching to Code (from Axis ART or Spitfire)
  • Axis ART is a very outdated foil to compare to a Code S, but even if you do compare them they have similar levels of glide, but the ART is challenging to ride
  • Axis ART2 is much more apples to apples comparison to Code S, and Dave has never ridden it
  • Axis Fireball is apples to apples comparable to Code R, and Dave has never ridden it.

Here’s a direct quote from Dave
“I tried like 4 foils. I honestly loved them all. And that was it, they worked for me and what I want. Which is I don’t want to really fall and I love getting wingtips out.”

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axis was my first real foil brand after my gen 1 nsp foils. initially they were great as i was doing wingfoiling, loved how much better they were compared to nsp and ended up buying maybe 40-50k nzd worth of axis gear from them, all of which is sitting in a closet never to be touched again. there are a number of things that have led me from being the biggest whale / fanboy to basically a hater. first, they overpromise and you get screwed with the new product launches.

example 1: i have a wide range of wings, im gonna need a wide range of fuses to match to the wings, so i got invested in all the non-advance standard fuses, then the plus came out, which means i have to buy all the fuses again. A few months later the advance plus comes out, and adrian says that the advance plus is just so much better than the plus and standard, they dont even sell the normal plus anymore.

example 2: spitfire was released and it was touted as a great wing to pump and link. i learned on the spitfire to prone and it was like the best wing ever for that, draggy but perfect for learning to turn like a surfboard. but it was also advertised as an amazing pump wing. i linked maybe one wave in the 6 months i spent trying to prone foil that, i had to give it up and go back to the 1099/1201. now its widely accepted the spitfire lacks the glide of a higher aspect wing, but the initial hype and advertising was like crazy over hyped on how well you could link with it.

example 3: last straw for me. because i was proneing on the 1099/1201 as those were the only wings i felt like i could easily pump and link, i was always looking for the solution from axis. here comes the art pro series. i should have listened to dominic hoskyns but instead i listened to an axis team rider who told me the 1051 would be perfect for me to pump and link as i loved the 1201 so much. i tried the 1051 one time, the stall speed was crazy high (and felt terrible on a wave) and i never used it again. now axis releases the fireball which seems like a copy of the code R, which is basically an art pro v2 but they screwed everyone over with the first gen art pros. this is not just me saying this. look at all the pro dw team riders they had and lost during the art pro (andrew gibbons, edo, etc…) . the inside information given to me by a dw pro team rider who switched was that the art pro was a disaster, they rushed it and the reason why it sucked was because they have to basically build every design based off the big rectangular conection system.

my code experience: my next wing / foil brand i tried was the code 980/1130 and i was one of the earlier adopters, the very first wave (i even have it recorded from the boat), I was linking 4 waves on the 980, pumping 40 sec into the wind. the code R wings are just silly good for pumping, i say that the R makes the S feel like going back to an outdated axis setup. (though my favorite wing is still the 980S)

im sure the new axis wings are better, but the crazy marketing and all the money i wasted has left a bitter taste. l feel misled from axis marketing about how every product from axis is just amazing and pumps great, when 6 months later they come out and say "oops actually its sht and here the new model is good". I mean what good does the smaller art pros have compared to the new fireball, if they were honest they should recall that art pro or at least rename it to sht pro. Last thing, you have adrian going on podcasts talking down about all the other brands about and saying that color is more important than area and all that nonsense just adds salt to the wound.

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