Downwinding is Easy. There I said it. My FIRST TIME attempting to downwind BUT using a longer 7’ 8” and 25” wide board.
If you can’t STAND you can’t CATCH. And if you can’t CATCH you can’t FLY. To Stand, Catch, and Fly go go with a 7 foot and “wider” board.
James Casey taught us to use BIG wings. GoFoil M280, Axis 1310 . . . . to FLY. I am suggesting to use a big board – Certainly to learn – Definitely so you can STAND.
I had been practicing in the ocean to make sure I could stand on the board. 7’ 8” x 25” X 120 liters that I had made by Jeff Clark for big wave foiling. We call it the “Wahoo.”
People have talked about the struggle, the humbling paddles and the pain. This weekend our captain Kyle led the crew from Coyote Point to 3rd Avenue in San Francisco. We all got up and flew.
Big Board, Big Foil, Big Wind and Fetch. Axis 1300, with 460P tail, 76 cm 19MM Aluminum mast, blowing 25 mph and 6+ miles of fetch. All wind chop.
History: I have been SUP foiling for 6 years, long enough to have heard it before “Foiling is impossible. . . like riding a greased bowling ball . . . “ We all learned on 8 foot boards with Tiny Kai foils.
I was intimidated by downwinding. I will caveat I Tried it 4 years ago in the Pacific ocean with an M200 – No Way. Then during a dying hurricane (actually blowing 45 - 60 mph) and got 3 x 200 yard rides in the US East Coast.
I have been on the new 7’ 8” x 25” X 120 liters board in small, medium and big surf as well as winging.
This is a barracuda style board but much wider. It was suggested it was too wide for efficient downwinding. But I can stand on the board in chop and in the ocean. I think this is key. To say it again. If you can’t stand you can’t catch.
I’m confused. Is it easy? Or did it take you 6 years to learn it. Those statements don’t go together.
You also say it was your first time, then mention at least 2 other times you’ve tried it.
You have the skills to do it. You used the correct equipment to do it. I would expect you to be able to do it.
The struggles come from matching the wrong equipment to the wrong conditions and having no skills. Example: Prone guys thinking they will be able to buy a SUP and go straight to DW on the same foils they use for prone in the surf.
Having 6 years of SUP is a massive benefit. Many of us are starting at 0 days of SUP. Learning to balance on the smaller board was probably the easier item of all the things you listed, though I’m sure it’s different for everyone. Once on foil things start to become a little more familiar to those of us that prone. I imagine it’s all even harder for those that are going from 0 on all the skills.
But you are right, bigger gear and perfect conditions does make it less challenging to a certain degree… For the lucky few who ever have perfect conditions anyway.
You ride a SUP and know how to paddle and catch waves
You can stand on the board in moderate to rough conditions
You use a big foil, and what some would call “Overfoil”
You find a place with good wind fetch
Listen to the Podcasts (although this can be like learning to fly from Chuck Yeager)
As I said I was intimidated by all the people saying how hard, and humbling it was and essentially had given up the hope of downwinding. Then Kyle and Josh come along and drag me and Haley by the hair last weekend. Haley was riding a 7’ 2" x 32" X 167 Liter Kalama board. Kyle and Josh belief was that my board @ 25" was too wide for good downwinding and Haley’s board, wider than most doorways, was WAY to wide. Haley got up and flew.
So this is a public service announcement: Downwinding can be easy. Just don’t limit yourself to narrow short boards. When 8 foot foil boards were normal we would catch big waves. I never stopped using boards over 7 feet for waves with 10 foot or bigger faces because they are FASTER. Fanatic just released a series of downwind boards @ 5’10" and 6’2". Where are the 7+ footers???
I am 50 years old and have not flat water pumped up. Good luck flat water pumping Haley’s 7’2" x 32" barn door, but he flew downwinding.
For reference here was my last downwind attempt 2 years ago. Good luck advising anyone to go out in conditions like these. 6’ 6" Blue Planet. Board too short with mast too far back. M200 wing - OK but . . . .
I don’t want to retract EVERYTHING I said, but 6 months later and 1 narrower home-made barracuda style board 30 SUP foil sessions learning to ride the 21" wide board with 10 more pure downwind sessions ranging from bay runs with 30 mph winds, to bay runs with 40 mph winds gusting to 60 mph, to multiple ocean runs with everything from ‘moderate success’ to TOTAL SKUNKINGS, beatings, drubbings and miles long paddles . . . .
IF you can find the perfect downwind playground, like I showed above from Coyote Point to 3rd Avenue in San Francisco, 20 knots of wind just after high tide - THEN it can be easy. Otherwise LOOKOUT!!!
This guy has the best perspective on learning the sport of Downwinding that I have seen yet.
I’m looking for video and see what downwinders using/doing on less then perfect area. A lot are saying they do their runs in small lake, small river with minimal fetch and 20-25knts. I did not tried DW with a sup yet but with a wing and currently in small land lock water…I can foil up to 2 min in 20-25 knts and I’m always stuck somewhere with pumping for 20-25 sec without a real bump and get off foil. In fact most of the 1-2min foiling are pumping vert often to connect wave to wave. I’ve tried with a higher 1100 foil…and a lower aspect 1800cm2 and I seem to have better result with the 1100 around 8-8.5 ar. BUT I think it’s because I pump fwd and always chase the next bump fwd I think? How would you manage your course and size of foil if you would do a dw on a 25knts with a 2-3km wind fetch for example. Thanks in advance.
I went DW for my first time ever doing it, the other day in a lake. Riding a Kalama 8’4"X18" 108L with Axis 90HM mast/png 1300(ar 9.94)/375P tail, I’m 84Kg. It’s Lake Tahoe so its deep which means the wind swell is big usually. I started the run off a point that is probably out a few miles of wind fetch. The bumps started small and so I did some popups but was just pumping around with not much to connect. As I got about a mile into it, bumps started picking up and were good from there till the end 6-7 miles downwind. It was my first committing DW run. I did way better than I expected. I was on foil for around 3/4 of the run. It required a lot of resting if I out pumped myself. I am an expert winger and often flag out and foil long ways downwind. I also have perfected the flatwater paddle up, so that made things easier. I also have a sup surfing and racing background, so that helped with balance in choppy waters. Anyway, it became a game of fitness when I would miss bumps or not be able to connect and turn into pumpfest. It was immediately apparent to me that the better I read and connect bumps, the less pumping I am doing. To your point, I think that the depth of the lake you are in and the size of the lake could prohibit big bumps from forming. I think that you will adapt and eventually become aware of how to tap into the energy there. I have always heard that bigger bumps are easier to stay up on for beginners. I believe it. It could make it a little more tippy when trying to take off. I thought I would be falling in a bunch but I didn’t. The swells were consistent out of one direction, grooming the peaks in a nice orderly fashion which made it pretty easy to stay vertical in between flights. I haven’t gotten another crack at it yet but hope to soon. I heard Axis is coming out with a huge high AR wing for slow lake runs. I think the better my kit, the less the struggle. I feel like I am one of the first generation of dw’ers that is benefiting from others trials and tribulations(thanks everyone who suffered and shared knowledge), and starting off with really good kit.
I’m very much a beginner wrt dw, but it made such a difference to head up to the gorge and learn to 5+ mile runs in good conditions, before coming back to marginal conditions in the SF bay area.
Something that really helps is having a wing that is large enough for small/sub-par conditions — you can’t expect to be on the tiny foils you see guys bombing swells on in Hawaii. I’ve been able do dw runs in 18" swells, but on a foil that is ~1700 (even having ridden sub 1000 paddling in great conditions).
Lastly, technique is everything — it’s had to get efficient with the wing as a security blanket - but once it’s just a paddle you get a lot more motivation to avoid having to paddle back up!!! Feedback I’ve gotten from great riders was to even out my stance, to stay higher on the swells, and to get “high and clean” → foiling with 2/3 of the mast OUT of the water - so that you can minimize friction, and tap into that surface energy.
