In that podcast with Paul Cooper & Josh Ku, they talk about the dangers inherent in going down the path of bans and legislation. I agree wholeheartedly. It really is up to us as foilers to self regulate, and no that doesn’t mean “doing wtf you want” as was suggested earlier. Self regulating means following basic water etiquette and not being a d*ck. It also means communicating with each other, which can sometimes include telling someone that what they’re doing is unsafe.
I agree with some of the shared resources about etiquette & priority etc., but much of this thread reads like a NIMBY post on Nextdoor. If someone is being a jerk on a foil assist of any kind, by all means call them out. But I don’t think we want to start creating blanket rules or regulations or starting a witch hunt on people using motorized craft.
I agree that unassisted folks have priority in order of what is most difficult. I just hope we can be conscious of the fact that wave priority is just that, and has nothing to do with a hierarchy of one craft being superior to another or that X individuals using X type of craft should be regulated or shouldn’t be at “my” local.
The thing that drove me to foiling in general was decades in a toxic surf culture where people riding anything other than the latest shortboard were not cool and therefore not allowed to enjoy the ocean as they pleased. I would hate for that same toxicity to find its way into foiling because some people use batteries and some don’t.
Bottom line is be safe, have fun, share waves. There is nothing wrong with going to a surf break, one that would normally have a lineup, on a day it’s empty due to tide or conditions. There is nothing wrong with being within eyesight of a group of surfers or unpowered foilers as long as you’re far enough away to not cause potential collisions.
I do think a lot of this shade on powered disciplines does come from sheer annoyance & or resentment due to wave count, as someone has mentioned. There is this idea of “if I can see it, it means they’re too close and shouldn’t be here”, even if really the person on an assist is nowhere near being in the way of anyone. Yes there are a few bad apples being completely wreckless motoring through people and yes they should be called out. But please don’t let that spoil the bunch and poison our sport as a whole.
Not all traditions from surf culture are great, and the “us vs them” mentality is the one I’d hate for us to adopt. We already have enough of that going on between foilers and all other water users. The worst thing that could happen is that we divide within our own community as foilers.
Here is another “Foil Drive Etiquette” video by Josh Ku. Josh Ku stresses respect, education, and communication as essential principles for foil drive users to coexist with traditional surfers. He advocates avoiding crowded lineups, using foil drives to access less frequented reefs, and communicating with locals to ensure proper usage. Ku urges the foil drive community to act responsibly to maintain the sport’s reputation.
The Good
Ku’s focus on avoiding conflict and educating both foil drivers and traditional surfers is constructive. His emphasis on using foil drives to access outer reefs highlights the unique advantages of these devices while respecting others.
The Debatable
Ku’s reliance on self-regulation assumes all users will act responsibly, which may not address reckless behavior by less conscientious riders. Without enforceable guidelines, even a few disruptive users could tarnish the reputation of the entire community and lead to stricter regulations or backlash.
Another perspective: Josh Ku’s message about avoiding crowds and finding uncrowded breaks is admirable, showcasing the potential of foil drive technology. His ability to ride well overhead, empty waves highlights the freedom these devices can provide. However, Ku is a highly skilled, sponsored pro who knows where to search, how to assess conditions, and has the confidence to tackle intimidating surf.
For the average foil drive user—especially less experienced weekend warriors—this approach is far less practical. Most users prioritize convenience, gravitating toward crowded, well-known spots where they see others surfing. Without the skills or local knowledge to explore remote breaks, they often contribute to congestion and potential conflict in busy lineups.
While Ku’s principles are sound, they assume a level of expertise and independence most users lack. Without clearer guidelines and consistent community enforcement, widespread adherence to his advice remains unlikely.
As if on cue Powered vs. Paddle: Nic von Rupp was towed into a wave at Nazaré—right into a paddle surfer dropping in. The jet ski driver missed both the memo and the paddler, setting Nic and the tow rope on a collision course. The paddle surfer ran over the rope, tripped, and fell down the face—straight into Nic.
It’s a crash course (literally) in why “self-regulation” often fails. If the pros can’t keep it clean at one of the world’s most famous breaks, what chance does the weekend lineup have?
The lineup isn’t a no-rules zone. Respect wave priority.
Who had right of way? The paddler dropped in, cleared the tow rope but the botched it further down the wave and crashed. The ski had left the zone by then so just one surfer dropping in on another.
On a more serious note, I asked surf expert Burt Bacharach for his thoughts, and he said, “You know what this lineup needs? A jingle!”
The Towman Can
(To the tune of The Candy Man Can)
Who drops in from the back, with a rope in his hand,
And cuts off the paddler who’s got the wave planned?
The towman can, oh, the towman can,
'Cause he thinks the rules bend for his jet ski band! His jet ski band!
Who whips up the chaos, like a circus in the sea,
And leaves the locals grumbling, “This ain’t how it should be!”
The towman can, oh, the towman can,
But respect for wave priority—he does misunderstand!
The towman can, oh, the towman can,
'Cause he thinks the rules bend for his jet ski band! His jet ski band!
So next time you’re towing, here’s a tip to understand,
Find an empty reef break, or be banned from the sand!
The towman can, oh, the towman can,
'Cause he thinks the rules bend for his jet ski band! His jet ski band!
Stab can try to play both sides, but the fact remains. If there are 30 tow teams out, do you expect to paddle out and be given priority because you’re on a surfboard? That’s the same as trying to cross a nascar track because you’re a pedestrian. Who has right of way there?
People are out there trying to make a living. They are working. They are not surfing for the love of it. Don’t try and apply surfer rules to people who are hustling to make money.
Apparently, these two managed to catch waves prone without getting waked by a jet ski, clipped by a tow rope, or sent cartwheeling down the face and over the falls… impressive, given the chaos.
But the real question is: who was driving that ski?
There’s no doubt Nazaré was a zoo. At Mavericks, they hold a two-day safety summit every fall, bringing together the Coast Guard, NOAA, harbor patrol, and others for presentations and in-water rescue training. Topics such as this can be covered and universally discussed. But the precedent has been: If it is small aka less than 45 foot faces paddle surfers have right of way. If it is enormous then it is a tow environment. But under no circumstances should an unaware ski driver just cut under another surfer and claim right of way.
More than a decade ago, Haley Fiske explained to me that “some of these people are just trying to make a living and get the shot.”
Haley has caught more 30+ foot waves under his own power than maybe anyone(?), charging Mavericks, Waimea, Jaws, and beyond on a SUP. At 61, he’s still out there catching bombs at Mavs.
In 2014, before the Mavericks competition won by Grant “Twiggy” Baker, we had paddled out to catch waves before the 8 am start. Haley was taking off in the bowl, Jamie Mitchell was wide.
Haley later reflected, “I’ve taken off in that spot hundreds of times. I know how to navigate that mogul. But I didn’t want to risk killing that guy.” Then Haley endured a mauling that would have sent most people packing or worse. Note how calm he was after the incident. Someone once noted “Nothing kills that guy.”
The incident made Kook of the Day, with critics piling on the “SUP guy.” Haley was annoyed but admitted, after reviewing the footage, that Jamie Mitchell needs to make a living.
As Nic Von Rupp said, “Only those out there know what the jungle really looks like.”
Maybe it’s time for pros—or kooks—to wear a yellow jersey, or a football Jersey and let everyone know who gets priority.
Was it a comp event for towing? If so - yeah paddler probably shouldn’t have been out there. Although it still annoys me to this day when I see Boardrider clubs just close off half the beach so they can have a comp for 12 of their riders.
Progressing under the assumption it wasn’t a sanctioned tow comp:
My understanding was that paddlers always had right of way over a tow team. If they have the balls to go out there and paddle-in, then they have prio over motor assistance.
And yes, if there are 30 tow teams out, you should STILL be given priority if you’re on a surfboard. Realistically a tow team has their pick of any wave out there, and can just wait for something after the paddler catches their pick. It’s not like he’s going to be out back again any time soon right?
And if you’re referring to social media exposure when you talk about “surfers trying to make a living” - that doesn’t mean they get preferential treatment when it comes to etiquette. The same way that I couldn’t give a hoot about a social media influencer hogging vistas on a hike so they make a cute little video.
I’m referring to people who make their money off of surfing. I’m convinced no one is surfing Nazare for fun. They are all out there to get a photo.
I couldn’t find it with a quick search, but Nathan Florence had a video up where he tried to paddle a slab and kept getting in tow teams way and talked about it. Great perspective from someone who was trying to work and because he was “paddling” had the right of way according to “the rulez”. If anyone has it, link to it please.
Haven’t you ever shared a lineup with a surfer who is filming? They don’t come to your office and get in the way.
Not saying it’s right or wrong. I just don’t participate in that dynamic anymore. Makes my surfing experience more enjoyable.
I prone foil a very popular surf spot that has become inundated with FoilDrive riders. If a FoilDrive rider is on a wave that I can catch I will go, PERIOD! I don’t believe just because you spent $6k you can catch every wave that comes through. Self regulation is a joke, when confronting most of these guys, the attitude is mostly to go F yourself, or even “you’re just jealous cause you can’t afford it”. I’m an advocate for bans of any motorized craft in the surf zone with people paddling.
So next time you’re towing, here’s a tip to understand,
