Who has both? I’m super interested in hearing whether the SR mast feels like it has less drag or not.
I just heard yesterday second hand that a local guy rode the AX and the SR back to back and found them to have similar drag through the water, even high on the mast. And then just someone else suggested they tried the SR and didn’t feel any major change in glide. I think everyone has noted how dramatic the short chord seems effect the turning/maneuverability. But the SR is certainly a good bit thicker than the AX…
So all you bottomless wallet suckers who bought one - speak up! The F4 thread only has hype and glaze.
Let’s all hope this thread doesn’t revive the old battles on mast thickness versus chord. Supposed someone once did some CFD simulation and decided that mast thickness doesn’t matter. Those were sure fun, huh?
I have the 85cm AX plate mast and a 85cm SR Tuttle mast. I’ll try and go back to back next session. Only thing that will change is the board and mast connection style.
I feel and feedback has been, the AX for straight DW on smaller foils it’s seems to be / feel a bit faster. No data.
Some reports say the SR feels a bit weird at slower speeds, with the short cord it may be that it likes a bit more speed to track, so it’s not too squirrelly. I’m not sure I have felt that as much, but will pay attention next time. Walt said that.
If you are on anything over 800/900 orca at anything over 70Kg the AX at high speeds does not love the span, for the less experienced it makes it a bit too wobbly.
So the AX in the right environment makes a lot of sense. The SR might take a bit more to get used to, but I feel it makes me a better rider in all things really. Still like the AX a lot on my small surf foils/ prinaha
I had a loaner RC before I received my AX. At the time I was coming off of Lift/ No Limitz and KT. It felt great relatively speaking.
But then I got the AX and was blown away.
RC compares well, slightly superior to other high end masts which were available last year.
AX is in a class of its own. SR is in a different class of its own.
RC is a good option for budget constrained people to have access to enjoy the thrill of the Orca series, and others. But, you are shorting yourself the true full experience.
I’ve logged a solid amount of time on the 75AX paired with the Orca 685 and 135XS tail (My wife has now claimed this setup after trying it 5 minutes…).
For my lake wind swell conditions I typically ride, it’s an incredibly forgiving and efficient setup—I can connect bumps, glide, and pump seemingly forever.It’s honestly an outstanding combination.
But, like most things in life… I wanted more.
Last week I switched to the 85SR with the HH585, hoping to unlock another level of speed, glide, and carving performance. So far, it’s definitely been an adjustment. I’ve spent a lot of time doing back-to-back comparisons with the HH and Orca 685/800, as well as the 135S, 135XS, and 138XS tails. Compared to the AX, the SR seems to decelerate much more quickly and is noticeably more demanding to pump—at least for me—even when I keep riding fairly high.
That said, the gains in roll response, yaw control, and overall stiffness are absolutely incredible. The foil feels far more precise and responsive, and I can’t wait to get it into some proper surf and pair it with the Foil Drive.
Maybe it’s just our slower local summer conditions, but now and then I caught a glimpse of something special. For a few brief moments, the foil felt magical. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to stay consistently in that sweet spot too often.
I’m looking forward to being able to unlock the full potential of this beast… maybe once the swell starts moving a little faster, hopefully.
Pm me if you want to trade this for an 80AX and $ or need an Orca 800 lol
After today’s hammerhead 585/125xs session, I noticed it really helps to get some speed up to start the run. That can be hard while stowing the PW in tightly packed bumps. The Orca is much easier in that regard. Once I got up to speed, it was easier to stay on foil and pump around and carve up some swell lines. Trying to stow when close to stall resulted in a few botched attempts.
Hey, my 85 SR weighs 300 grams more than my 85 AX.
First feels on few sesh’ parawinging/ boogying / kitefoiling : the SR is stiffer, glide quality and speed are increased , pumping is more efficent , and the setup is looser : i can turn on a dime !
Paired with the piranha it ´s a dream setup.
My 1st tow boogie sesh on the SR85 I really felt my pumping was more efficient , and i was able to connect waves more easily.
if too high on the mast at full speed, it can be too loose, if u push the carve, you can 360 … so u need to tame the beast ! so much fun !!
Its would be interesting to know if there is a point where going too thin on the chord you lose the drive through a hard surf turn. Like when the fins are too small for the power there is nothing to push against.
Had my first run with the SR 80cm plate today in sub 15 knot river session riding the Orca 1250 which I primarily use for dock starting. Was a great opportunity to test the stiffness. I’m 65kgs and riding a semi sinker 57L board. The board was submerged a foot under water at times but I think due to the stiffness of the mast I was able to keep my balance and when the wind picked up I managed to come to surface and then pump up easily enough. I’ve been riding the RC 75cm which is 500 grams lighter and perhaps I need a little time to get use to the extra length getting up as it seemed just a tad harder to get going. I was in shallow water too so the foil may have been too close to the river bed. Once up the 1250 felt like an 800 in terms of yaw turning and edging upwind toeside felt noticeably easier. I managed to get on a boat wake doing 14.5 knots which would not have been possible for me using the RC mast and 1250 I think. Super stoked for my first run. I’m thinking it’s going to be like crazy fun on the 685 after the initial adjustment phase.
The RC has never not felt stiff to me but now I’m starting to wonder because the SR gave me so much more control over the 1250 Orca. I’ll have more definitive feedback once I’ve ridden the 800 Orca in proper dw conditions where I have felt something wobbling at speed but I’m thinking this may be in the foil tracks in my board or in the board itself. First impressions though is that the SR felt stiffer and most likely up close to the board this will be undeniably stiffer. I’ve never been able to stay standing on my board so long while underwater and this will be because of this stiffness. If there is any flex it will be in bend and very low down where the spring back is faster and less noticeable and hard to distinguish with flex in the front wing.
With the foil design there are lots of paths to success and several optimizations that are working. The SR mast is a result of a project we did on Olympic kite foils. This mast has significantly less surface area under the water - like 20-25% compared to our skinny masts. This comes at a slight cost in thickness, but provides a huge stiffness and control increase especially important for the higher aspect wings used in DW racing!
There is a lot of discussion around the drag of the SR vs AX, some claiming the thinner section seems faster for them especially when going straight. SR surely turns better and stiffer.
Do you have any quantitative or qualitative ideas on the differences between the AX and SR regarding drag?
I also presume less surface area is good but an elongated profile with longer cord may actually have less drag if looking at that in isolation of more surface area?
I love this. It’s awesome to see real live tangible examples of when the R&D for the highest-end niche performance areas of the sport translate into visible benefits for everybody’s gear.
I’ve always found that the best stuff hits the racing scene well before it’s in the mass toys. But unfortunately most people think it’s “not for me”.
Racing isn’t about building Testarossas that only a small minority can actually drive, but instead about making things easy and predictable at the highest speeds and closest to the limits - which ultimately benefits all designs.