Flatwater Paddle Up Thread

Downwind Foil
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Having come from zero sup experience, the sup side of downwind foiling has been a huge bottleneck for me. I have finally gotten over the hump of consistently being able to flat water paddle up and am going to keep practicing to go down wing sizes, tune gear etc. One of the most useful things in progression for foiling is surrounding yourself with people who are better than you and learning from them, so please feel free to post your tips/feelings/gear etc here to help others battling the good old sup bottleneck.

  • Currently on a 7’3 sunove elite 23 wide and takuma 1900 LOL. Have an ono ava 105 cut to eyebrow level.
  • Have found a shorter fuse is easier to paddle up so have been finding my @mikepedigo fuse shorteneing tail the go to. Currently have only tried 1.5 degrees shim for more lift. plan to go down shim sizes.
  • Have found a shorter mast has more lift and easier to dig out of those first few strokes when you start taking off so have paddled up on the 70cm LOL takuma alu mast but also found it easy on my no limitz 78. i think the stiffness of the no limits actually negated any benefit i got from the shorter alu mast in this instance.
  • Am thinking of the benefits of slightly longer paddle for longer mast, i may try my smaller blade adjustable paddle for paddling on my no limits 78, i have a theory that eyebrow level may be a fraction too short and hindering being able to get my paddle way out in front when i start gettign lift off and need to scoop those last few strokes.

Taking all these feels into next session,
tried the 1440 kujira.
-find i need to get going faster before i start paddle pumping. more emphasis on the first 5 or so strokes to get more speed first.
-got to the paddle pump stage with board off water for about 10 strokes but couldnt scoop out of it yet. will be trying again tomorrow to see how i go.

another random tip: make sure you stack your shoulders on top of each other and dont paddle with a real straight stance. i was doing that for ages and it prevents you from really reaching out right in front of your feet for those powerful strokes. plus it fucks your shoulders.

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Could you expand on this?

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Watch his shoulders.

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hey mate yea exactly that video. for so long i was standing square shouldered and doing weak paddles next to my feet whereas i needed to be doing shoulders like the video and reaching as far forward as i could without overbalancing. on my new board its not quite at the nose. old board was 6’2 i could get slightly out front of the nose.

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You’re in more of a surf stance though yea?

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I’d say it’ll be more of a hybrid between the two stances. Back foot a bit further forward at first, but turned sideways to the stringer. Front foot ahead, with toes pointed a lot more towards the nose than typical for a surf stance.

Super narrow board here. But you get the idea for how the front foot is pointed forward.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CiAwn59DJpF/

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yea mate. kinda surf but feet facing forward. i just posted this got some footage finally. might be too far away to see my stance though.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cnacrp2DtD_/

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I’ve got a board that has its tracks a bit back, and I can’t match up where I want to stand for the foil and where I need to stand to have the board float flat. I tried this the first day I got it, and I could stand correct for the foil, with the tail in the water and nose out, or stand with it flat but I never felt the foil lift because I was in front of it. Am I correct in thinking matching that up is key? I made a track extender but haven’t tried it in flat water yet.

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ive actually felt that i like paddling a bit forward of where im going to have my feet for foiling and when i start sprinting and feeling liftoff i slide my front foot back. i was doing this in the ocean so that i could really lean forward to get onto the bump and then sliding foot back. hope that makes sense? have you balanced your board/foil position up?

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It’s pretty important to balance up the big paddle boards. Less important on small prone boards.

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That is interesting, I’ve heard that before but not sure I like moving my foot/feet at that critical moment. Also it felt silly trying to pump with so much board out front. I also later tried the extender in waves and liked it better but I was really standing on my front foot until I took off. Perhaps I need to try more techniques and mast positions.

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definitely do some experimenting mate. but the foot shuffle is probably something your going to have to come to terms with unless you want to use straps. you can minimise it by balancing hte board up but there will still be a subtle movement i believe.

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What is everyone’s experience around choosing volume compared to weight for the longer type boards?

Maybe weight in kgs x 1.3?

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Hey mate I’m on 128 litres and I’m 77-78kg which is 170 pounds. This is my 4th board. So that’s 1.5 body weight approx. I would consider my sup skills intermediate now and I can balance on this board in cross up/backwash pretty well but still occasionally fall off. No way I could have stood on this thing 6 months ago.

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So not strictly flatwater but paddle up practice today in mediocre glass off (wind died) bumps was able to paddle up the 1210 kujira only once i rode out of it*. another 4 or 5 times got on foil but couldnt scoop out of it. felt pretty similar to the 1440 paddle up but just needed a bit more juice and few extra strokes to scoop out of the initial phase. had my mast in the same spot i set it for the 1440 which i think was a mistake, think i will move it forward a few cm next time i try. ive been finding with the kujira wings that i like it a little bit forward of balanced.

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Some random notes I made from a successful paddle up on a smaller foil (1107cm2), I’ve not really felt the need to spend that much time on this, but coming back to it yesterday with better strength, gear and technique I managed to crack it quite easily after a few goes. In the past I’ve not managed on smaller foils. This was partly due to the following:

speed: if you’re paddling well, and have a modern downwind board (>8’, <19") then possibly you’ll be able to get going faster than you realise. Once I locked in the feeling, I realised I was going way faster than necessary for the foil, and didn’t have to put as much effort into the paddle.

move feet: James Casey does this super well, as does Olivia Piana. I found that standing further forward, and then actively moving my back foot backwards as I built speed helped me feel where the foil was engaging. (Once up on foil then you move your front foot back). James does it here where he is actively moving his feet to find the foils engagement.

pump!: While I was paddling way too hard, I wasn’t pumping nearly enough, and not usefully. Once the board is up to speed and especially when it starts releasing, pumping made a huge difference, as soon as I started pumping I felt I was going plenty fast to pick the board up and pump away, with the paddle starting to just assist. I needed to pump faster than I realised. Eg Zane, super clear:

lean forward & keep paddling: despite the fact that you’ve got the foil engaged and the board releasing, keep leaning forward, paddling “nose to toes” to keep the board accelerating and the foil from stalling. This is something that ruined most of the “almosts”, was standing up straight to start pumping, or missing a paddle stroke and bringing my weight backwards.

Otherwise I find it pretty tiring, breathing helps, high intensity helps, focussing on what you feel and looking at footage helps. Smaller paddle helps with more accurate paddle strokes, I’ve found the power is less of an issue but easy accurate paddle strokes at a high cadence seems to be more of a factor. Different for different phases I guess

Also reposting a snippet from the last time I looked at this:

Please have a look at absolutely the smoothest flat water start I’ve ever seen. See the story for details on how you can glide up without breaking a sweat. I copied and summarised these tips below, thanks Dan J!

  1. Paddle ups are about breaking water tension and getting air between the board and the surface of the water. That’s what I was aiming to do. Get air between the board and the surface of the water.
  2. Use your legs. Imagine a skateboard ollie but not as critical. LEGS!!! So important. I found the paddle should be secondary.
  3. When you feel you’re starting to come up, Remember those legs. and pump when the foil is underwater. Even though you aren’t up by pumping it’s releasing the water pressure, reducing drag and helps to increase speed
  4. Keep paddling after you think you’re up, because your still not at speed. That’s why a slightly longer paddle helps.
  5. Once up get legs closer together. Even the slightest shuffle will do different things. Tiny movements will change verything.
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So sort of offset stance? Rear foot closer to toe side rail and front foot closer to heel side rail?

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Meaning if I lift it from the front wing upside down the board basically comes off the ground flat correct?

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