Frothers, I am trying to get up reliably on my DW board (Custom Carbon deck 8’X21"X6" @131L) and FOIL (Naish JET HA 2140 with 320Stab). Over the last few months my speed has really come up but what I have encountered is the porpoising of the board works against the inertia. Like Im trying to push a ball up a hill only have it roll against another hill and roll back down. As my fitness has improved so to has my accuracy, (honestly this has been great fun), but I keep running into this. I tracked down a few youtube clips from Dominic Hoskyns about HA pumping technique and I wondered if my porposing the board on the sprint paddles has kept me back. Maybe I need to get the foil up to speed, not porpoise the board and then look to release the foil down and then start to pump away. I dont have the back half of this pump dialed in yet and I thought I would post this to see if this registered with anyone?? Any advice? In advance, thanks for the help! Here is my latest clip for reference: SUPFOIL Paddle Training NB36 - YouTube
Hard to see in that angle. Do it next time where the camera is sitting on the dock and you are paddling side to side across the frame so we can see you side on.
It appears that you’re getting on foil in a lot of those. Just not pumping away?
Most likely you’re just stalling the foil when you come off the water and point the board to nose high.
Paddle flat to gain speed. Tiny pumps in rythym with your paddle. Paddles goes in pressure on the board pushes down. Paddle comes out pressure on the board lifts off. After a few strokes with tiny pumps. Increase strength of pump. Few more strokes. Increase strength of pump. Keep the board level or nose down if possible. Pumping to big to fast will stall the foil and/or slam the nose into a chop in front of you and kill all your speed.
Also couldn’t make out too much from the angle, but another thing is to keep paddling once the board starts to leave the water, it looks like you stop each time it is about to properly lift off.
Also lean forward more as you might be too upright, but hard to tell.
Hdip - I am on foil on most of those, yes. I feel like a fish out of water but 100% just not pumping away. I think you’re bang on yes, Im stalling the foil. I think what you’re saying is to paddle and pump the board flat then engage a nose down attitude with small pumping motion. This makes total sense. Its funny that I want to have the board release rather than nudge it slowly towards the oscillation I need to gain enough speed so I can FOIL away. I find myself fighting some weird mental inclinations, almost reflexes that have to be verbalized to fully sorted out. Thank you mate that really helps.
Matt- You’re 100 percent right I stop too soon. I think its because Im still too green to be comfortable on FOIL. I can feel the FOIL start to engage then release. Im often in awe of the feeling, I just have to get over the reaction to stop. The balance point I am also wrestling with. Just the other day I was playing around with foot placement and found a spot in the mid point of the board that if I kept both feet close together I found more stability than I have ever before. Thats what got me thinking about HA wings not wanting to be porpoised but flat pumped… I def think I can engage my body more efficiently, perhaps using my arms.
Ill try and get a side profile shot of me. Thank you both!
At work so couldn’t watch your vid and I can’t say I know the naish wings at all but I know if I try and pump my axis 1099(tap) like the 1150(porpoise) I will just stall it out. Specially in the beginning. Have to give more of a wiggle getting on to foil than a pump. I can’t force it like on a lower AR wing. Not sure if this will help you at all.
That does help and it makes sense of what I am feeling. The wiggle, is that just a forward release of the FOIL?
I think it’s more the lack of surface area to push on. With the high AR, as your reaching lift off speed you can still push it down through the water column you need to reach flight speed before really pushing. So a little tap or wiggle as your lifting off works better. A lower AR you can really force up with the full pump.
Got it. That makes sense. I went out last night and tried to implement the flatter board strategy. Two things I noticed right away. 1. Keeping the board more level is way more efficient in terms of paddle to speed. I got going way quicker with less paddle strokes and makes me realize that this is a doorway to more speed. Getting more accurate with the paddle stroke and keeping the board quieter will help me either way - VERY good news. 2. My foot placement is critical to not stall. In order to not stall the FOIL I needed to shift my back foot up and front foot back. This created all sorts of balance and subtle accuracy issues as I have dialed my foot placement in over the last couple of months. This will of course work itself out with time on water. The other thing I noticed was the FOIL mast placement I felt like could go back a bit. Its been a long time since I felt like I had too much lift. Backing off the mast could allow for more speed and stave off FOIL stall angles. What do you guys think?
At times last night I was all over the place honestly but reviewing the video today I realize that I have some gems to uncover. Your suggestions will help me gather more speed, your suggestion will also help me dial in my foot positions. I really noticed moving my feet around had massive effects in terms of how the board and FOIL behaved. Perhaps I needed to shake things up. I will report back but gents, thank you! I have some awesome news skills to hone in.
Sunrise Session this morning… I had to report back as it was a big step for me. The idea of not stopping paddling once I got close was stuck in my brain Matt. Hdip, your sequence you laid out helped me realize a first for me - felt the FOIL release and accelerate with 4 full pumps on FOIL!!! Those two tips paired together unlocked something. It was fu*&ing dreamy and worth every ounce of effort to finally realize. Im frothing for the summer. Just a follow up to say thanks and share the win. Cheers boys!!!
Good explanation. On a low AR foil you can just Olly it up like a skateboard, and it won’t stall. Do this on a HA and it will stall so the middle ground is to pulse it
Good progress! My further input would be that catching bumps then becomes 100% about timing, and you are certainly ready to go catch bumps. I have been doing my first few sessions in bumps and it becomes obvious pretty quickly that timing is everything and the few where I have got up easily have been a few short hard strokes to get up to speed and then a few more to pop up. Once you are up is when the really hard task of staying up
I never bothered learning flat starts, so you are almost certainly more paddle proficient than me for what it is worth.
Thanks fella! From what it felt like I just needed to be in the right position to be able to release the FOIL down to increase the energy on the front part of the sine wave. If I were to load up the FOIL on the proper side of the sine wave I would be able to continue to build up the energy. If I let the energy dissipate to the back end it would die out and I wouldn’t be able to stay up. I have this picture in my head that when I align the CoG of the board & FOIL and my weight transfer to the proper spot the whole kit powers up. It feel like I need to get more accurate and continue to improve my core strength to be able to keep building the energy. Either way I am over the moon as what I have been searching for months I have found. I felt like I was searching for something with my eyes closed… pretty exciting. The paddle proficiency has changed for me. It used to be that I would focus on the front half of the stroke but now Im think about as a strike down and pulling on the back half. I heard that from Jeremy Riggs and see Kane De wilde using that paddle stroke. I think my paddling will continue to go in that direction. We shall see though!!
It looks like you could lean further forward and bury your blade closer to front of the board, and release at your feet not further. That will make a massive difference in board speed after your first couple of paddles.
Sometimes doing this causes your nose to go under, if that happens put your feet back slightly like half a cm or so.
nice fella… preciate that. I will def look to improve those two points. I think that will help me make sense of the FOIL angles when I get up as well. Cheers!
Gents, just thought I would follow up. This was this morning. Something clicked!! Thanks for the push in the right direction boys. Progression project for the win!!
I want to dial in the FOIL now gain more speed and look to build more speed and glide into the micro swell. This FOIL is faster than I thought it would be. Soo stoked.
I don’t SUP, but I do ride Naish. Do you have a smaller foil? The Naish 2140 is a pig, it generates so much low-speed lift that it is actually a challenge. I had a 2140 and a 1400 HA and found the 1400 a lot easier for dock starting as it doesn’t stall near as easily as the low-end lift is much more gradual.
I do have a smaller FOIL but for kitefoiling. …Funny you should post this when you did. I had a session yesterday that I was able to get out in some awesome swell conditions (this rarely happens for us) it was a treat. I think the 2140 is super sensitive to pitch VS angle and speed. I would stall out in most of my runs, perhaps because of the low speed lift. I was trying to get my head wrapped around this today - post session and I think you’ve nailed it.
Perhaps the super low stall speed is working against me now in terms of glide but what it will do, I think, is train me to be UBER accurate with my FOIL pitch angles.
Went out again last night… Ill double down the accuracy of the FOIL pitch… when my angles and proper oscillation was on I picked up speed quickly. When I pitched too high I slowed down quickly as well.
I think it will be a matter of proper FOIL pumping and Ill work to transition from my paddle up to working the FOIL properly. Oscar has a rad video that i watched that made a lot of sense to me. All though hes on a wave the FOIL pump efficiency he has is unreal.