Hi All,
Thought I would share my initial experiences with the Manta Foils Flow. I received my unit about a week ago, and it’s been a rocky-ride throughout the process dealing with the company. I have been proactive with dealing with them directly in a measured way, and think that we have to be patient in nurturing the businesses that serve our relatively small and niche sport.
On the other hand, I think a purchase of a $3,000-4,000 e-foil accessory can be a big investment for anyone - and if they don’t work - a terrible waste of resources.
Prior to delivery/Kickstarter
When MantaFoils first announced their product on Facebook, they advertised a $2,400 special launch price, with a $200 OFF coupon for $25 backers at the beginning of January 2024, incredible! However, after paying the small deposit ($25), we were corralled into a Facebook group, where we learned of an upcoming Kickstarter that was open to the general public, with a small (20?) number of slots available at that original price, despite there being 150+ original deposits. After a lot of public pushback we were able to get Manta to honor the original offer.
The waiting period, and a shift from Air to Flow/Air
Units that were originally expected to be complete and available by April/May -didn’t ship until mid-September (not entirely unexpected). Manta handled this period well and proactively - posting updates to Facebook and via Email, as well as offering various transitional options for folks wanting to shift their investment over to the Flow which was introduced. With the addition of an external antenna ($125?) and shipping ($150?) my check was $2,675 with $25 prepaid = $2,700 in - still a great value.
Shipping and Taxes
Prior to shipping we all received a note from UPS about the expected import duties ($357) into the US, now bringing total investment up to $3,000. Manta Foils seemed amused by people being surprised by this:
This may be true - but actively adjusting expectations here seems like a better way to manage all of that. Handling this at checkout would be even better.
Product Experience and First Time Use
Unboxing the unit - I was impressed overall by much of the build quality and packaging. The OLED screens are bright, the components seem well made. My battery closure screw is both crooked and doesn’t line up when tight - a bit concerning. Lining up all of the screws was a huge PITA, and assembly process has you jumping back and forth between Torx and Allen keys across 5-10 sizes.
Some choices seemed over-engineered decisions - to the difficult to assemble cable guides, to the complicated pod-shimming system that still wasn’t able to fully grasp my high mod mast without damaging it. The whole setup is about 20lbs+ pounds, and is 1.5-2kg over the advertised weight. There are a number of missed marketing promises here from weight, to compatibility, to ease of connections. The biggest issue however for me and other users has been the inability to maintain reliable and smooth modulating power. The motor cuts out repeatedly and unexpectedly, making the product unusable.
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Product Instructions
It’s possible that there are optimizations possible on the user side, but the product comes with minimal instructions. There are videos, but in some cases they rush through crucial aspects of remote control setup - gesturing to parameters that are important to get right, but without voice-over for how to solve specific problems. The paid antenna accessory for example comes with no instructions … and removing the old antenna destroys a gasket or glue - manta has recommended a few suppliers for various components needed to make the whole thing work, but is primarily reactive in this department.
Response from Manta
In reaching out on connection issues in particular, they have said that they will need the customer to locate an Android phone, then go through some firmware installation steps. Despite having iOS and Android support for their other products, they do not yet have these for the TakeOff system. There are no other workarounds if you are on iOS. No returns or partial refunds, per the firewall placed around this by the IndieGoGo campaign. No discussion allowed in their Facebook group per the moderators, so customers have started our own group to try to help each other out.
This has been a bad experience - and I shudder at the additional investment needed to make this work: a dedicated mast, a dedicated custom board. In many ways the modularity is what is killing their product experience - as there just hasn’t been the refinement invested in brand-by-brand pods, or other considerations outside of a traditional e-foil product.
We know what we are signing up with regard to steep discounts on launch products, and for example I have no problem with them sending out additional components with revised plastic parts after initial failures. However, the despondence with which they have responded to concerns around connections is a non starter. Many users (including me), are also experiencing out of phase motor issues where the whole unit will shudder and shake the board. But I don’t think they will work on fixing this until we force them to work on it.
These cannot be considered to be lower cost foil drives, if they can’t be floated by a typical prone, mid length, or wing foil board — nor can they be considered to be a foil drive at all if you don’t know when that motor will or won’t kick in. What does capacity and range matter if you think the unit might leave you stranded?
In Conclusion
I’ll post an update if things improve, but for now I would be very wary given where they are at, and how they have handled feedback from initial customers. There seems to be an empathy gap here in that at the end of the day this is an e-foil team, rather than a surf team that efoils, so issues around incompatibility with masts and boards they don’t produce may never get prioritized. My recommendation to them is to interview or watch customers go through the Buy->Setup->Use journey, and let the sticking points be folded back into their decisions to make the experience better. Curious to hear how this is going for other users.
