That is interesting. I wonder if we will see anyone extend that concept to the mast-fuse interface too.
This is a good point, Axis is becoming a standard. I had completely forgot how there is a standard developing, but at the fuse-foil interface. Quite a few of the garage and small batch builders are doing Axis compatible foils. I don’t love that setup because you have 2 areas for poor tolerances, but it is more modular. When new it is fine but older Axis setups often feel a bit loose?
Something that would prevent a standard mast foot is the large variance among them and so designers will continue optimising etc. Only once the incremental designs become less impactful would it make sense for a standard to emerge I guess.
For those using the axis black fuselage interface, has anyone come across accurate CAD file for the interface? I really wish Axis would publish it, but probably asking too much. I would think publishing the information would encourage aftermarket development, which contrary to traditional thinking can help increase market share rather than pirate sales.
I saw this on the SailGP site, transitioning from L shape to what we ride, ie T shaped foils.
What caught my eyes was (in addition to @ProjectCedrus the Titanium trailing edge) the integrated titanium mast base fuselage into the foil section adapter which I thought was brilliant and could a standard.
based on this thread below, interestingly Takuma is emerging as a standard.
If you get a NL v2 with Takuma mount, then that opens up the highest degree compatibility for other foils by using foilparts adaptors (6 choices - unifoil, lift, cabrinha, axis, f-one, onofoil).
(ironic that it would be Takuma mount emerging, but it is because their foils are great but their masts and engineering is bad?)
The other clear standard is Axis mount - compatible with Lift, unifoil, cabrhinha, and then a few smaller garage builders.
And then obviously Cedrus, but the standard is determined not by them but adopted etc
I think the reason Takuma is the standard is because it’s easy to design from, not because it’s good. it is forgiving with tolerance (no tapered pockets) and it spreads the bolts out (because they are m6 you can move them farther to the leading and trailing edge of the mast). This leaves a lot of room for 2x m8s to fit in between. It is also a small footprint - cleaner to go from a small footprint to a large one than vice versa.
I asked stringy to make a couple adapters for a Uni mast and for the reasons above he said he couldn’t do it cleanly (taper fit, fairly big connection going to a smaller one…).
FWIW I’ve blown m6 bolts out of the side of an aluminum Takuma mast and feel like the mast walls are way too thin for the loads they are taking. You are basically starting with a crap connection and daisy chaining connections to it - the connection is only as strong as its weakest (Takuma) link.
I was daydreaming today about a new foil company that didn’t make masts, just fuselage-foils with various tail lengths with standard stab connection. The mast connection would be cedrus, so cedrus to foil is one joint. Then NL would have to make a cedrus version! So buy a cedrus adapter for NL mast! Wouldn’t even have to be foils. Maybe just stringy or stringy-like fuse company, so I’ve come around to toomuchepoxy’s idea.
We love what guys like Jim Stringfellow, Foilparts, Alchemy, and Project Cedrus are doing for compatibility and enabling foilers to experiment. Please contact them directly to enquire about Omen adapters for your current equipment.
We’re happy to share our connection geometry to support Omen customers who love to customize. Omen’s warranty does not extend to equipment that is damaged or lost due to the use of non-OEM adapters.
To add to the 6 adapters mentioned, Stringy also does a Takuma head adapter for Code foils. I use it with the nolimitz v1 (78cm) and now v2 (85cm) masts. These adapters are almost identical to the Lift adapter he supplies.
Another approach, but in effect just using the Axis mast foot standard, and providing a few fuse options which is cool, catering to the ‘non-unibody’ configuration of brands like Axis, Armstrong, SAB, Gofoil, Naish
It would be very interesting to know from anyone here who is using one of the systems that have an integrated fuse to the front wing:
for example Lift, Fone, code foils
Is the cavity in those wings larger than the Axis mast foot or smaller? If the cavity is larger than a direct adapter shim can be made, if not then maybe we should pick a different mast as the “standard.” Selfishly, I already own a fairly expensive Axis mast and would love to get adapters to other foils.
Foilparts also makes this adapter and great products in general. The fit of every adapter i’ve purchased has been exceptional. The adapter above is a great solution if you have an Axis carbon mast and want to add a Lift foil. The only downside is the screws from fuse to adapter are shorter than I’d like so carry the appropriate tool on your first session. The length is limited to the thickness of the alu on the bottom of the adapter. It would be easy and safe enough to drill into the mast itself to allow for a longer screw. A permanent mod but wouldn’t have any impact on the strength of the mast foot. I guess you could always fill it with epoxy/graphite powder if you go another route. That all said the adapter worked great even without drilling but you really want to check bolts every session. Looks like Alchemy decided to go with a thin Ti bottom piece for the threads so there you can see how much thread is actually holding adapter to fuse.
It should be possible to adapt an Axis carbon to Code as well. Lift and Code are about the biggest mast foots out there.
Yeah, that’s a little expensive for what it is. Looks like a great system though. Even with the wing permanently bonded to the front fuse (for stiffness) it looks like a travel friendly package with the removable rear fuse.
It occurred to me, were I designing a foil plane, and not wanting to also have the hassle of building a mast, I would design it with an alu fuse that had a flat plane, and that bolts directly into a Cedrus mast. How difficult is engineering a flat to flat interface with the pins?
This is on the back of the fit issues that you see between Code and adaptors, and Axis and adaptors where tiny production variations cause all kinds of hassle.
Main challenge is the lack of separation from the tension elements (bolts) to the compressive elements (flat interface) for resisting bending loads (lift center out towards one wing tip or another). This is why Fone, AFS, and Mike’s Lab all flare their mast foot out a bit at the interface. In mm it is not much, but percentage wise it is 200% or more, which at least halves the compression and tension forces resulting from bending loads.
