"Overfoiled" explained

It seems to be the common solution.
But it’s made at the expense of less maneuverability.

Do you think it’s possible to make the stab more draggy by another way than increasing its size?
For instance adding a dummy element to it, so it drags?
A dragging string?

Well I don’t increase the size if I want to make it draggy. Normally I would ride either the 120/135r dw tails. If I want something draggy I goto the 142ar tail with 0.5shim. I don’t use any tail bigger than that because if I want more drag I’d use axis :joy:

Camber creates a lot of drag when speed increases, almost like a parachute, even with a thin profile. If designed correctly it can keep the wing within it’s optimal speed range.

I tried the double whammy today on a 7 miler. First time doing a downwind run (with a wing) on a giant 2400 low aspect foil. Foil was slow on small bumps and when I did get into bigger swell I had to do everything I could to keep from launching out of the water. Got launched a lot but what a goddamn blast. Used to do a lot of outrigger downwinds and the stoke today on a giant foil matched the feeling I would get on some unforgettable runs on the OC1. So pumped today after getting a glimpse of downwind foiling.

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interesting…i’ve heard the ‘draggier tail with small fw’ before, but never tried myself…i think Erik talked about it in the podcast, he sometimes uses the 14.5 progression stab with smaller fw?..can’t remember if he reduced the otherwise increased tail moment by reducing lever/shorter fuse or less/ negative shim, but i guess that would make sense, otherwise you are slower but frontfoot pressure gets higher anyway…i guess i need to try the 14.5 with the 100 prog ocasionally…

i might add that using matching fw and stab plays a significant role as well. What i mean is not just size, they should be designed for each other so that their llift/drag vs speed and angle of attack curves are similar. Otherwise you get inconsistent lift (spikes) over the speed ranges adding to the above described overfoiled problems.

I first noticed this when i switched from Kane’s already excellent stabs to the progression stabs, quite a difference in range.

Also i must add what a difference just 0.5 deg less shim can make for control and reduction in drag/more glide…bloody hell…yes i know everybody talked about it for ages, and i had tried different shims, but somehow never got below +0.5…( i’d like to try 0.25 deg. shims, anyone has ideas where to get them for standard 30mm?)…t’was partly out of laziness to change it up too much, partly because i thought i’d need at least 0.5 for my mediocre pumping technique, thinking it would make the fw rise back up more easily…how wrong i was…
I recently tried 0 deg for the first time on my progression 140/14.5 and it made a very, very noticeable difference…like i said, a lot more glide, more speed and more control at higher speeds…

Regarding being overfoiled, i think the biggest problem is that looked in feeling at the upper speed range…there’s less you can do about it through trimming than with the too much lift/balance issues and alsoyou cannot trim just for those ocasional speed bursts…
Even downsizing will help only to a certain degree, i had this happening when downwinging with the prog 100, the swell wasn’t even that big, maybe 4ft at 10sec…granted i am only 68kg and there where 30kts+…and a big part of it surely was rider error/technique and beeing scared shitless on some of the speed bursts… i probably would have had to turn sideways more and kept turning earlier, but sometimes you just wanna send haha…
I didn’t have the opportunity to try my evolution 135/afterburner 14.5 yet, apparently it should solve some of those problems…can’t wait to try and feel how Erik and Cliff approached this…interesting times…

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Have you tried moving your mast back a tiny bit? maybe a 1/4" at a time until it feels comfortable? I just told a friend of mine who is learning proning what worked for me to find my mast sweet spot on a given setup… I find the little zone between a heel edge turn and a toe edge turn as your weight displacement is slightly different. I will push the mast forward to the point my heal side (think: frontside cutback) turns are solid without breaching. If on a toe edge turn (backside cutback) it feels like my foil wants to breach or wants to buck me off i back up the mast a tiny bit. Little wing screw help as you can do this in the lineup. Hope that helps. :grimacing:

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also check the thread on “trim”