It’s a term you see used quite often. Please, will somebody unpack it for me?
Going too fast for your foil or setup. Symptoms include too much front foot pressure and breaching, too much backfoot pressure and diving and/or the foil feeling locked in roll. The first two can usually be tuned out with stabilizer or fuse adjustments
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I see people use it interchangeably with breaching too.
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So a smaller stab or longer fuse would help reduce breaching while riding/pumping as well as nose diving in the turns? Either would change the pump and feel.
For someone who is just starting to have a consistent pump, Id rather keep the same stab and fuse and instead change the front wing out. Fuse length and stab seem like the “feels” portion of the foil and the front wing is the “performance”. I’d rather be forced to change the performance than the feels. Am I wrong on this?
So when someone refers to being overfoiled, they mean that they used a too bigger foil for the conditions they were in.
Being blown out of the water because they couldn’t hold the foil down or so locked in that they couldn’t turn.
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I feel like there’s two types of overfoiled. One you are on a huge wing in a huge wave you just get blown out. Second, you are on a small or even tiny 600cm but ar13 wing on a big wave, you are not overfoiled you are just way too fast and efficient and you can’t turn because you’re going too fast. The way to solve the latter is actually to put a draggier tail so you slow down a bit so you can do some turns. Both you are still overfoiled but they are completely different types of overfoiled.
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We typically use the same definition - Getting blown out of the water since your foil has too much lift for the conditions.
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Yea to expand on this a little maybe a 3rd type of over foil specific to down winding.
Being on a big too slow wing to keep up with the primary bumps. Meaning your constantly having to turn off of energy since its passing you up rather than being fast enough to keep up.
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I’m beginning to get it. Distilling the feedback I’ve gotten so far gives me the following: if I’m riding a front wing, let’s say it’s greater than 1000cm2, and I can’t keep it from ascending and breaching in the given conditions, then I’m “overfoiled.” To combat this I might change my stab and or my fuselage, but this would change the “feel”. Maybe we need to unpack what “feel” means? Switching to a smaller front wing would also get at the problem, but change the performance at the same time. Let’s unpack “performance” while we’re at it. Other descriptions of “overfoiled” include getting “locked-in” and getting left behind by the wave. In both of these scenarios, as well as the breaching one, the front wing is too big. In other words, “overfoiled”, while manifesting differently in different circumstances, means that your front wing is too big.
Now that I’ve got the general idea, let me get into the particulars. I ride a 1050cm2 front wing that has an aspect ration of 8:1. Often times I’ll experience the ascending-breaching scenario described here by others when riding waist high to shoulder high waves. Keep in mind, I’m 185lbs wet. Given all of that, does it sound to you like I’m “overfoiled”? I suppose that more front foot pressure would counter this, in which case It’s less that I’m overfoiled and more that I’m not distributing my weight correctly. Being that I’m a novice, I find it hard to know the difference between the two. Are there rough guidelines on foil size to rider weight? How would wave period factor into those guidlines?
I’d add as well being on a big span foil & being pitched off sideways on a wave from underwater pressure
Is that an overfoiled problem or a flexy mast problem due to the wide wingspan? If I peel off and try to pump at a bit of an angle on my HA and a non-high modulus mast, I get bucked off like a trampoline. If I’m on high modulus I get away with it.
This sounds overfoiled. You’re on waves with enough speed and size that you don’t need all the lift your foil provides at that speed. This creates front foot pressure beyond what is comfortable to manage with a neutral stance.
A small front foil will create less lift and front foot pressure relative to speed. On bigger waves this will feel more balanced/controllable.
And yet, you hear about people riding >1000cm2 foils in head high surf all the time. Am I wrong?
The fuse length, stab size and stab angle can have a huge effect on the amount of front foot pressure.
Longer fuse, bigger stab, greater stab angle all increase front foot pressure. The right setup could make a 1000cm front foil perform great head high and the reverse is true.
Increase the force and increase the lever and you’re tilting the front foil up more and more with speed.
This all comes down to how the full setup handles the speed of the wave. The wave will dictate the speed so the system needs to be tuned to that. Changing the front foil will have the biggest tuning effect, but the rest of the system (fuse/stab/stab angle) can also have a big effect.
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Okay, let’s check to see that I understand you. A shorter fuse or a smaller stab or a decrease in the stab angle will reduce front foot pressure, which will make a larger foil, like the 1050cm2 foil I ride, behave better in more powerful waves, i.e. waist high surf and above. Does that sound right?
This video really made it click for me:
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Exactly. A smaller stab and shim kit can be really useful to dial things in. A shorter fuse can also help, but I’d adjust that last. Ultimately you may want a smaller front wing since this is the most significant variable in the system, but the stab/shim/fuse length make a big difference.
Outside a relevant range the front foil might just be too big for the conditions. A small stab shimmed flat will reduce front foot pressure, but the front foil will always be too pitchy above a certain speed even if the front foot pressure is alleviated by the stab setup.
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Absolutely. I am overfoiled on head high waves with a 600cm ar13 and overfoiled on a 720 ar9.5. 95kg. Also, there is a huge difference in power between low period head high waves and long period waves. I am in a location with high period waves.
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You can have balanced foot pressure, get too much speed and lift, and push the nose down to direct the extra lift forward instead of up. With your weight too far forward you have poor turning response, and with the foil pointed down vs direction of travel you get poor water flow which feels insecure (my theory, I don’t know anything about how this works). I think this is the “locked in” feeling.
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I would add to the above a simple metrics to know if you have the right size foil for breaking waves, which is do you have enough speed to surf the wave top to bottom? Meaning you have enough speed to outrun the wave in the flats and attack back up vertical, that is the perfect size imo.
Now that size foil is quickly very small when the waves get bigger, and your propulsion method (prone/wing/foilassist) might not allow it, so then you make a compromise somewhere in between. What you can also do is pick the smaller waves between the sets, if that’s possible.
That is what kt foils try to address (I think), having a foil with a huge speed range and easy pump to be able to use a tiny foil surface/span, while sacrificing a bit of efficiency and drag feel on the top end. Fone sk8 sacrifices the low end, afs enduro also the low end but not as much, uni prog and army ha sacrifice the top end, that’s what I’ve tried (only a subjective opinion here).
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