I’ll preface this by saying I thought my prone foil game was at least getting to the intermediate stage. Multiple waves per takeoff. Shore runs of a decent distance…etc…
Two sessions ago I moved from a Naish 4’8 x 21 @ 36L hover to an Amundson 4’6 x 17 @ 31L super model. The amundson feels way lighter.
On the hover I’d have my lift foil shoved all the way forward ( on the 170 ). It’s been frustrating figuring out where to set it on the new board. The new board feels like the nose wants to come up before I ever get paddled down the wave. I’m not talking about it coming up out of the water like I’m over foiled. More like when you’re missing a wave on your normal surfboard. I’d have thought it would be easier to get down nose down on the skinner boards.
Also I’m guessing the wider board allowed me to be sloppy on basically all of my foot placement ( and staying balanced over the center ). It was easy to get up and going on pretty much anything. Now if I’m slightly off on my pop up its easy to veer off like the viciously angry kook that I obviously am.
I’m not sure what the question is. Maybe this is just commiseration. Granted, its only been two sessions… but switching to more of a performance board has been enlightening in all the worst ways.
That is a big step, you need to work on it, finding the best positionning in the box is crucial, then getting used to the width (way more sensitive). It takes time !
But after a while I doubt you will want to get back.
I went from a 4’4" KT 35L board to the 4’4" Amundson Super Model at 31L.
With the LIft 120, I have the mast set at the 5.0 mark. I weigh 140 lb.
The first session on the Amundson felt very twitchy. I was blowing a number of takeoffs by not getting my feet in the proper position. I also had a problem with pearling on the take off because I didn’t have the mast far enough forward on the first session at the 3.0 mark.
By the second session, I had moved the mast forward and I was getting my longest pumps out the back. The lighter swing weight made pumping easier.
Compared to my wider foilboards, I seem to be able to get into waves much easier with the narrower Amundson.
A friend once told me every liter matters. Ummm maybe, I thought. But then I bought a prone board that was 5 liters less volume and 5” shorter. The difference is so significant! The smaller board paddles like a rock, comparatively. My pop-ups are so much better on the larger board that I don’t want to bring the small one on my upcoming trip south. I love riding the small board but I have resigned myself to saving it for wake foiling or tow-in situations. TBH it blows me away that big guys can paddle into mushy prone waves on 4’-4”, 28L boards.
Spent a lot of time on the lift 170 and that over foiled feeling was a frequent issue for me. Really had to stomp the front foot and get up quickly to stop it. Assumed it was my poor technique but then switched brands and the problem went away
I’m barely approaching intermediate, but started on smallish boards on borrowed Lift 200 HA, 200 surf v2, and the 170 and all I felt was that over-foiled feeling (73KG). Switched brands and got a mid-length board and started progressing much faster. No pitch issues. I recently borrowed the 170 again for a couple days. One was small weak waves, had a bunch of fun, the other was a more powerful spot and I felt like I was back to square one getting bucked on my drops.
The weird thing is that I’m demoing a 150 hax right now and it might be the best foil I’ve tried so far. Total opposite of the other Lift foils I tried. Aside from the things people usually like about it, it feels so stable and under control, even in more powerful waves. Totally caught me off guard.
When I do choose to size down my board though, this thread has made a mental note for me to take my time and do it gradually.
What kind of wave are you riding? I find that a lot of different boards suck for alot of different reasons. I feel like for shape a lot of the trend in that longer and narrower is great for faster deep water swell where you need the paddle speed to catch it before it’s breaking.
The stuff I ride is mostly crumbly short period white water takeoffs and I’m looking for a wide tail block to catch that white water and accelerate quick…so the opposite…
Also, weight is meaningless. Stiffness is king. I make my own prone boards and they are not super light and are absolutely great because they are the stiffest boards on the planet. Both those boards (Naish and Amundsen) are super probably not stiff enough. Is the Amundsen new?
If I have to rate my priorities for prone boards… Stiffness, outline(wide vs pulled in depending on conditions), volume, shape details(what the rails are like, bottom contours, deck recess, etc), and weight is last. I really think that stiffness has messed with a lot of shapers. They design a new board with some special new shape and they ride it and it feels “amazing” but in reality it’s just a stiff freshie, that will loose its magic right around the time the next “game changer” comes back from the laminator.
@TooMuchEpoxy - Question to you and others. Do you feel like your foil boards get more flexible over time? If so, how fast do you feel like boards start to break down? 2 years, 4 years? Obviously it depends on a lot of factors but curious what people’s observations are. What I do know is every time I buy a new board my first observation is how stiff and reactive it feels. Please opine.
It depends on the brand and their construction. Freedom boards go soft almost immediately - like in a matter of 4-5 sessions. Those boards have a heavy carbon skin offer minimal internal foam reinforcement and I think that lack of internal structure is the problem.
I think some of the kite company boards hold up a hair better (slingshot, Naish, north, etc) because they’re built a little heavier in those kiteboard/sup factories with the sandwich construction on the outside but still lacking in internal structure so not great. My buddy’s portal is holding up great a year in which is the best I’ve seen for an EPS board(id love to see what’s inside of that one - internal reinforcement is key for EPS) but that’s not made in a mass produced overseas factory so I’m sure they’re doing something special inside the board.
I’ve never put hands on an Appletree but I really like their construction with that PVC foam core and I imagine it holds up(all about the internal reinforcement) but I can’t say for sure as I’ve never tested one.
My personal boards are solid 3lb density PVC foam with internal carbon connecting the boxes to the front foot and external carbon reinforcement - like a heavier Appletree. They are bomber and last forever(but with a weight penalty)
I’ve got a thread about the Freedom boards, the lack of internal structure, and what I add to make them stiff.
You gotta get familiar with the beach test. Pop the board on the sand, foil up, and have one person step on the bottom and torque the foil fore and aft HARD while the 2nd person puts their hands around the boxes to feel for flex. If there’s movement you’ll feel it. Remember - foiling loads on the box are MASSIVE, 2x body weight at times so don’t be afraid to even sit on it!
What do you think is going on with the foil when your riding it!!! You think its good vibes holding your weight above the water? All the force from your weight has to get down to that wing somehow. This is almost precisely the force thats on the foil when your rolling down the line just chilling - not even in any kind of manuver. To be fair I massively overbuild my boards…maybe thats why they last more than a year!
Slingshot foilfish 4’6x22 34 liters. Wide and thick. Moved to an amundson nubby 4’3 x17 32 liters.
I was almost instantly disappointed I didn’t turn into adam Bennetts. Haha. I feel the same way I jump on a new foil. But in reality it was a massive adjustment in paddling, positioning, and balance points. Paddling I needed more body forward.
After a couple of sessions, never looked back. Stiffness and length for me were the biggest factors when on foil. Paddling, I usually catching a breaking wave as it’s the east coast. Never really have a problem except when it’s a bit bigger and longer period, with a higher tide. When this is the case or just on smaller on a higher tide I use my mid length. It’s 5’9 x18. Paddle power and stiffness for easy pump. Wasn’t a big adjustment, but needed a session to figure out mast placement and sweet spots.
Just keep working on positioning. Btw I am avg at best lol.
