Really? I went from an HA to an 8, and i progressed for sure. I guess the type of progression differs. I can definitely ride waves better with the 8, and the only trade-off has been a more effort to pump and a little less glide, but if your trying to ride the power sections of the waves, the glide doesnt matter much IMO
2 Likes
Riding and carving waves generally can be practiced and learned very quickly if getting towed in optimal conditions. Pumping and staying up on foil for several minutes is insanely hard and years of practice later Iām still pretty much where I started as my physical conditioning hasnāt improved significantly. I have no interest in lower aspect wings, I wish code would make something like the axis tempo but in larger sizes so it would be easier to stay on foil for several minutes.
Lots of brands with aspect 8 that can surf really well. BUT the only positive reports i have heard of an aspect 8 with a good pump is the flite.
A 90kg friend said the 707 pumps really good. Sure you can oversize your MAās and get some pump but it defeats the purpose of going to an MA in the first place.
Wonder what makes it different? Superficially most of the HA8 surf foils all look very similar. Maybe tail combo too?
Duotone,s new surf wing imo is worth a try, Iāve been on the Crest 925 (ar8.9 & 900 wing span) for a little while & itās feeling very nice. Has the moustache shape & rolls over effortlessly but still has great pump/glide. Monoblock tails coming as well.
Only used it prone so far.
Duotone is such a conundrum. On the one hand theyāre the 800lb gorilla in a space so they have almost unlimited budget to throw at a problem. On the other hand it seems like design by committee over there and prone is such a small market segment. I think globally thereās maybe 2000 prone foilers!
I feel like prone piggybacks on other foil disciplines for development - wing first, then DW, now FD.
Seem our numbers have been increasing since last year : 
But i agree with you that prone has been sucking hind tit on R&D budgets. I suspect the one reason thereās now more mid-aspect focus is because of foil-drive and parawing pushing more riders into waves on smaller boards. Less focus on pumping forever between waves (which is a bit overrated imho).
Mid aspects wing design have probably already peaked as well. Code x, flite, Uni Aggression all look pretty impressive.
Definitely! Iām really hoping now there will be more focus on stabilizer designs and optimising those for surf. Stabs are such a big part of how a foil surfs and pumps. More options, better flex patterns and profiles, universal connections with adjustable stab pitch and fuse lengthā¦
2 Likes
What is the difference between the newest mid AR such as Code X/Arm new MA and Axis Spitfireļ¼Closed AR but some serious criticism for Spitfire, or just Axis run too big stepā¦..
I know some folks probably like it(and Iāll admit I havenāt tried it - who the hell has one for me to try?!?
) but I hear that axis surf foils turn like the old gofoils where you have to lead with your body instead of starting the turns with the foil on more modern foils. All that anhedral locks you into leading the foil vs a flatter or moustache shape that skates around a little more. Maybe also those foils are designed more for surfing South Pacific energy and the whole world decided that we want surf foils for riding gutless east coast energy - its way more fun to ride foils designed for crummy conditions on a good day than ride foils designed for good waves in crummy conditions. Slower mid aspects are better when you need to control that speed but a 9-10 AR is really versatile. So maybe itās just that axis gave us 11+ AR pumpers and this <8 AR (in the sizes id surf at least) surfer but no decent surf foiler is gonna bite on that without a 9-10 AR surf foil in the line for every day conditions.
And JESUS that spitfire gets LOWER AR as it gets smaller - thsts the worst design philosophy Iāve ever seen for a surf oriented setup. But again - maybe someone riding bombs in indo is stoked for a 6AR 700
Also I feel like the other brands do a better job of thinning out their catalog and saying āthis is the hot thing new get itā where as axis has 1000 wings to look at on their website and itās a bit much to even look at.
5 Likes
Had a good laugh reading this. So much wisdom in this post!
Should I get the Ultra Crazy Silly Sick Short Fuse, or the Ultra Crazy Silly Sick Short Advance Fuse?
7 Likes
Ummmmā¦If youāre a real foiler youāll have to get both! You know in case the wind changes 5kts
1 Like
I would gues the new surf foils have camber on the bottom versus the Spitfire which didnāt.
This should allow for smaller foils.
What works for surf foils is tweaking based on a good rider taking an opinionated stance on what they want. Itās a surfboard process. Itās an artistic proces. AFS did that with Chipri, Unifoil did that with Adam and now Erik, Flitelab with Adam, KT with Kane, Code with Josh, F-one + Jack etc.
At the end, youāre buying into the intersection of the riderās personal style and the general feel of the foils. Look at what Pyzel did over the years with JJF with surfboards (and note that Lift and JJF did a foil collab).
So the main takeaway is that the way to get feels is through a strong opinion on what good feels like.
(I heavily edited before posting this to be as constructive as possible, as we are all in this togetherā¦)
2 Likes
I donāt think Josh Ku is a designer for Code. I think the Tardrews do that all themselves. James Casey may be the only one who can pressure them into doing something theyāre not into haha.
1 Like
The riders certainly give feedback and designers tweak based on it. Dave West, Josh etc have been riding the X for a while - I think I heard them mention that the final design is like v13 or something ridiculous? I remember seeing a version last July! I really like that they have such a long design cycle with such amazing team riders giving feedback 
2 Likes
I know one of the team riders (not one of those mentioned above) and he pointed out that even one of the earlier versions was still such a good foil that he even said, ājust produce it like this.ā (I think I can say this without getting into or causing trouble.) So anyway, the fact that they kept refining it after that is pretty cool. Awesome level of commitment.
yeah i donāt mean design I just mean strong pairings of high performance rider(s) and designer able and willing to iterate.
Moved the review here:
5 Likes