I’m about 10 hours into my flat water paddle ups and I’d say you are doing way better than me. My board is smaller and shorter and I weigh a lot more so that’s my excuse (195lbs with wetsuit and a 7’4 108L board).
Like foilmad, I’d say you are basically there as you seem to have no trouble paddling straight, getting up to lift off speed and keeping your balance. Your primary issue is that you are stalling at lift off from not getting enough weight forward and not able to keep paddling during lift off.
You can correct this by keeping your weight forward and making sure your catch is nose to toes even as you are pumping during lift off.
Your stance is fine assuming you can do that, everyone has a different preference, even the pros - I’d only adjust if you really can’t get the down pump correct after trying. Some people do move their front foot a little after they get to lift off speed. If anything you just need more weight on your front foot during the down pump and catch of the paddle. You can also try moving your bottom hand closer to your top hand so you get more forward extension on the catch and keep the paddle submerged as you continue to paddle after the initial lift off.
I also don’t think your mast should be farther forward as you are already too far back on the foil as you get lift which is contributing to the stall. If anything, you might move it back to delay the lift until you have more speed but I’d start by seeing if you can improve your technique or move your front foot forward since you are already keeping the nose from diving.
You’re not going to believe this but if the board is lifting up in front of you, you need to move forward, haha.
The other thing is you (and anyone) are physically unable to pump the board hard enough. There is no “too much.” Keep that in mind. You need to be literally jumping into the air. It doesn’t look like it to watch a flat water paddler, but I promise you it is the intention.
Watching your video, you are not pumping the board enough. There is one telltale sign you can look for on the water. Your back heel needs to be coming up after every pump of the board.
Thanks mate. Great comments indeed in this thread but some conflicting advices too. I’ll try to get over the front as I get lift. Seems to be the main issue.
That happens when wingfoiling too on light wind take off, when the board lifts into a stall. Applying front foot pressure usually allows to glide into it and gain momentum. Hopefully the same can apply here.
Quick update: I’ve played around with mast position, going back in the tracks gradually as long as I could get an easy lift off.
Surprisingly mid track works well and I can feel that I get more controlled time on foil paddle/pumping, so I think I’ll keep it that way. It felt right, as did having front froot more perpandicular to the board, around the centre line. I reached 16.4 km/h yesterday (smashing previous record). That tells me that the foil is engaging. Thanks again for all the great advice on this thread.
Some improvement I think today as I adjusted my stance as advised (feet more centered, shoulders in line with board). It changes the whole dynamics of the paddle up, for the better. It allowed me to keep balanced significantly longervand really dig in with more power.
Maybe it’s the angle of the video. On better angles I see my paddle existing at or slightly before my back foot. Is that what you mean by paddling behind me?
I think the main issue is the missed catch as you takeoff, side angle would be useful
You can see from the front angle that the catch is not exaggerated enough in the takeoff moment. It looks good before the liftoff but then the precision is lost when the foil lifts
All that really matters is the strokes as and after you lift off and there you miss the catch and your weight shifts back at the critical moment
You should be very precise, and not miss the catch. If you lean forward more in the takeoff then you are lower down and get a better catch.
If you make a more deliberate point to really lean forward at the takeoff then you can paddle through the transition. Keep paddling accurately as you take off.
Yes it makes sense. No chance my lower back (operated on 10 years ago for a herniated disk) will let me do this but I can certainly try to get closer to the ideal technique. Cheers
Nice, you’re so close, it’s purely just ensuring that paddle catch is perfect (far forward, properly engaging the water on each stroke through the takeoff) while maintaining the power. You eventually realise that it’s more technique than power, so it’s useful to start being very precise. Lots of fun (here is me at roughly the same stage, on a too small board and foil at the start)
Thanks Matt. Thanks for sharing the video too. Very helpful in seeing the progression.
When you say too small a board how small was too small? I’m questioning mine as it seems unecessarily tipy in slightly bumpy conditions. As soon as I have a smaller foil/shorter mast to attempt wave riding and downwind runs I mostly cannot stand on it and have to start on my knees. I’m 72kg and the board 112l.
I’m wondering if going towards 125l would help, and/or slightly wider.
It looks like we were making the same mistakes too
I ended up on 108L Armstrong DWP 8’11x17" wide for downwinding after a few customs and testing various things (I’m 70kg, board now sold). I would like to say I could have gone smaller but mostly glad to have the volume. The board in video was around 85-90L, smaller than I realised, so I struggled to get it going. I still have it for parawing and surf foil.
Possibly worth going bigger, there is almost no downside to going bigger for ocean bumps as the other tradeoffs are pretty minor at early level. If you can demo one that could help, as often I was surprised at how much variance between brands, shapes etc impact the feeling.
That said I always fell over a lot, it’s part of it. Lots of paddling on knees, stand up fall over a few times, then hold it together for just long enough to paddle up. Same with all our crew. Eventually you stop falling as much. Maybe 21" wide could be worth trying.
A wider foil span and longer mast add a considerable amount of stability for being on the bumps. Just keep in mind that the flatwater paddle up is a party trick that is useful but not neccesary for actual downwinding. It is much easier to pop up with the help of a bump. I would imagine that there are a bunch of competent DW foilers who can’t consistently do a flatwater paddle up. Just get out in the bumps. Don’t wait. And, have fun!
Yes this is a good point, I was paddling up in bumps like 6 months before flat water and even then it was only for something to do in the winter…
This clip was mid summer, well before the winter flat water paddle up video, and as you can see a good bump makes a paddle up pretty trivial.
on reflection, here are some thoughts on the skills:
spotting the right bump (this takes lots of time and can only learn in the bumps)
getting to your feet quickly and staying upright (learn in the surf, backwash, worse the better)
putting some power down (more about high cadence and timing)
transitioning from paddling to pumping (flat water is the most useful here)
staying on the bump (parawing a good cross trainer here)
Sounds good guys! I enjoy a good challenge so I’m kind of learning everything all together: wingfoiling, sup surfing, fwpu’s and downwinding. It sure is fun! I haven’t touched my fin surfboards in weeks…
One more update - went for a different board (Smik 8’6, 18 wide, 128l). While this is a lot of volume for my body mass (75 with gear on), it definitely helped with stability once up.
Link below of second session with it. Sorry about the dirty lens.
but I can certainly try to get closer to the ideal technique. Cheers
