Surprisingly impressive and significant performance upgrades built into this board. For dedicated swell riding this is my new top choice.
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Is this board the same construction as the new Sunova Casey Downwind sup?
Not sure about that. I haven’t seen any of the new Aviators. I have one of the old versions but there’s a chance one of the local shop is getting some new Aviators in this month.
Curious… In your opinion, when would you choose the Carver shape over the Pilot? … Volume aside - since you have 85 Carver & 65ltr Pilot would a 65ltr Pilot be better than your Carver?
I actually replaced my 85l Carver with a 77l Carver that is 5’11" for this year to try it as just a slightly thinner and lighter setup. Still need time to report thoughts on that one.
However:
I think the Carver shape excels for people who want to jump (rockered hull), DW with a little more of a classic style (not especially aggressive) and especially if you want to ride smaller foils, I think the Carver deck is really welcoming to flowy rail to rail movement at high speeds.
Summary: Carver is a better all-rounder, welcoming to riders who are new to narrow boards, allows rapid progression, not overly sensitive to rider inputs.
The Pilot however: I think if the volume were the same it would have a better low end with the flatter hull. If you are really pushing your rail to rail riding hard and have trouble catching rails, the Pilot will be better than the Carver. Larger foils are more enjoyable on the Pilot since the deck is more aggressive. If you want to go narrower than 20" I would say the Pilot deck shape is mandatory.
Summary: Better for the high performance rider who doesn’t jump and is looking to push their limits with a lot of rail to rail sensitivity.
Interesting - Thanks Brian.
No problem. Forgot to add that yes, I now prefer the Pilot over the Carver unless I am riding in under 20 knots.
Do you have any more details on this?
I don’t, but I ordered one. Will post an update when I get it. Can’t really find much info other than the one YouTube video with Casey talking about it. I got the 8’4 x 18.5
Interested in your thoughts on your custom dimensions. You went a touch wider/thicker/shorter? than a stock pilot mid for the same volume.
Once in general mid-length size ranges I wonder how much difference there is between the shorter/thinner/wider mid-lengths and the longer/thicker/narrower versions.
Guesses when moving to the narrow side:
- Narrow versions pump worse
- Takeoff easier
- Rail to rail better due to weight distribution
- Rail to rail worse due to available foot placement
- Rail to rail worse due to thickness acting like a longer mast
- Boards stays out of your way turning with respect to roll, but get’s in the way with respect to pitch
Think weight distribution may have a bigger effect on turning than foot placement or thickness.
Also wonder if the additional takeoff performance still holds at -30L and -40L for a winger. Idk if it’s needed for me at -17L, but considering going down in volume and trying to compensate takeoff with more narrow dims.
Ive got a custom (non Sunova, but fairly similar shape) coming at 6’, 19", 60L (-20). Very eager to see how much I gain in takeoff and roll for an additional 1’ length and 2" less width vs my daily driver at the same volume. I generally ride strapped, and will be using this for more surf style unstrapped.
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Interested in your thoughts on your custom dimensions. You went a touch wider/thicker/shorter? than a stock pilot mid for the same volume.
Once in general mid-length size ranges I wonder how much difference there is between the shorter/thinner/wider mid-lengths and the longer/thicker/narrower versions.
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When I order gear I prefer to make small changes to the dims, not large ones (the only large change was volume). This allows me to isolate variables a little better so I can learn from specific differences as opposed to changing every single dim dramatically which makes it difficult to compare. Prior to ordering this board I felt like the Carver was perfection and the Pilot Mid wasn’t released. When I sent them the dims they told me there were updating the Pilot and adding the Mid but I didn’t have access to those numbers, they just asked if I wanted to try the new shape and I said yes.
So, I went:
20” wide because the Carver at 20” was my version of perfection.
5’9” because I knew I was dropping liters and figured an inch shorter would be worth trying.
Thickness wasn’t a choice, but a result of the liter decision.
I have a 90l Aviator 6’6” at 18” wide
Sold my 85l 5’10” x 20” Carver
Got a new 77l 5’11”x20” Carver
Got the Aviator at 65.7l 5’9”x20” to give me a relatively even spacing 90l, 77l, 65.7l set of boards to compare notes on.
As far as your narrow guesses go:
- I find weight to be the main variable for pump.
- Narrower board takeoff is easier in light conditions but not by much vs 20” at the same liters. It’s dramatically easier in extreme conditions.
- Rail to rail benefits are minimal lower than 20” for me and are actually hindered if the deck shape isn’t right. You’re just losing the necessary width to give powerful inputs from your feet which is part of what I mean when I say “flowy” riding. When I ride the Aviator at 18” wide I can get the same rail to rail experience but I have my toes wrapped off the edge of the deck on my rear foot and my lead foot runs parallel to the board length on the other edge of the pad.
- There’s thickness pros and cons for sure. I consider my riding height to be relatively fixed after all of my time on the water. As such, thinner boards give me better rail to rail clearance and fewer touchdowns but on a 75cm mast I breach more. Thicker boards like my Aviator 18” almost never breach for me but I have far more touchdowns due to the thickness and boxier shape. At 6’6” on that board I still have zero issues with pitch.
I think the largest impacts on turns are width and deck shape. I think anything under 20” without the proper deck shape becomes extremely limited in performance.
Takeoff benefits should continue to hold vs other shapes at those liters but it’s hard to tell by how much. I see very little benefit in lowered liters for my riding style if the shape is perfect and don’t foresee myself pursuing negative liter volume boards in the future for anything other than weight reduction which is very low on my priority list. I am very dedicated to the use of smaller sails and I am yet to find any value added to my riding in going lower volume if it forces me to use a sail larger than 3m. If I were to order another -20 liter board I would consider going dramatically longer 6’5”x19” but most likely would go the other direction, another notch shorter. Probably 5’7”x19” and just commit to it as a stronger wind board.
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Here’s my Aviator review if you want to scrounge around on it. Not using it for paddling. I think the dims for the new Aviators will be better with the paddle. Hull changed for sure, not sure if the deck changed based on what Sunova published.
Hey Brian,
Read your review on this, I have a couple questions you seem like the guy to ask.
I haven’t winged very much (maybe five sessions), but i’m a pretty proficient DW SUP paddler. I have a 115 liter duotone sls that i’ve been using for both disciplines, have yet to wing on a smaller board. Got on my friends parawing and LOVED IT, again just on my boat of a dw board. I’m super interested in the pilot mid as my normal wing / parawing dw board but worried the volume is too low in the stock for my experience and weight (6’2 84kg). Would the pilot mid be good for my use case? Super curious what I would need to do to get a higher volume custom. Also let me know if you are planning to sell your pilot, sounds like you go through a good number of boards! Cheers appreciate the thorough review it really got me stoked to read!
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I’m 86kg so we’re pretty close. Hopefully I can give you some good insights!
I loved my custom pilot at -20l to kg, easily my all time favorite board in the air. It was a gem. I did, however, end up selling it. Sunova is essentially my laboratory and I just keep testing theories, buying new boards, on and on. I love it.
I sold it because I was struggling to get my water starts in our rage like Gorge winds at times. When the gauge is reading 20-40 knots I want to be on the Silk 650 with a 2m wing. Admittedly, I am always pushing the wing/foil size lower than most. The 20 knot lulls were tough at -20l with a small wing and foil and I’ve come to the conclusion that closer to neutral buoyancy is always worth it for my style of riding. I can fistfight on to foil with a neutral board and small gear. Not so much with a sinker. For you, if you are using more average sized foils in the 800-1000 or larger range I think it would be fine. Also, are you planning to downwind with a parawing like the BRM or do you plan to point sail and session upwind/downwind in place with something like the Pocket Rocket?
If you are downwinding just like you did with the paddle (car shuttle) I think a grunty BRM will be a blast at the stock 68l Pilot mid. If you want to session in place with a Pocket Rocket, a sinker board might punish you a bit more if you are a rider who likes to fall in and get lots of restarts. Normal sized foils and wings will work divine with the production dims.
My current go to board is a Custom Sunova Carver, 77l 5’11"x20" and my 1000 mile review is written, including notes on parawing, and soon to be published. Just adding pictures and videos to it.
Here’s my last vlog about learning to parawing. You can tell I’m frothing too much in the video despite having a big swim at the end:
I need to take my 90l Aviator 6’6"x18" out with my better Pocket Rocket skills and see how that board works again. I have a sneaking suspicion it might be really good for my weight and the Pocket Rocket with my developing skillset if I can figure out the more nuanced balance of a skinny/thick board.
If you are looking to order a custom Pilot it’s super easy. Get in touch with Christian at Poseidon Paddle and Surf https://www.poseidonstandup.com/ to discuss what you are looking for. I do all my board orders through him. He and Dylan Burger at Sunova know what I’m looking for in boards at my weight and do an awesome job with my orders. Expect a 10% custom dims fee on top of the retail price. I’m also happy to give you my 2 cents on any dims you come up with, especially since I am designing my next board as we speak.
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What an awesome and informative write up! Thanks, the parawinging insight was huge. Do you think you could have parawinged in-place like you were on the sinker pilot or no way? I think since I don’t really enjoy winging but loved the parawing that i’ll probably end up doing in-place sessions even if I primarily downwind (ebike shuttles are easy where I live!)
I’m super tempted by the largest stock pilot mid but wonder at what point it would be better to just get a stock carver so it isn’t so long. I’m very used to long skinny boards but honestly looking for the best PUMPING board I can get my hands on. Any insight on which would be better between the two?
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I don’t like vouching for theoreticals but if I had to guess:
Sinker pilot with BRM: No way.
Sinker pilot with Pocket Rocket: Maybe.
The parawing you choose needs to have enough low to high end ability to jerk you out of the water and leave you not overpowered in flight (you 100% should be hooked in to a harness).
Sunova knows what they are doing with board designs and my 6’6" Aviator is only maybe 1" longer than my 5’11" Carver? The length is added behind the foil, not in front.
The 6’5" Pilot will pump better as its skinnier and lighter. If you order the Carver you still need to order it with alterations. Ask for a Carver in vapor construction, no deck pad, no threaded inserts. That will draw the Carver weight down and make it more competitive to pump vs the Pilot. You WILL NOT be charged for those Carver alterations unless something has changed since my last order. You are only charged when you change the volume, length, width, liters, dims.