Cool to hear you liked it.
Don’t be scared to try more. I have 2°-2.5° (relative to deck) when parawing, and even more when winging.
1 Like
Not crazy. This is a part of the foiling experience. You sound like you’re skilled enough to be ready to find a company/design that matches your style as opposed to trying to figure out how to make Code ride how you want it. That’s exactly how I had my biggest breakthroughs in foiling. Learning enough to know what I wanted and then going out and finding it.
2 Likes
Iʻm not even talking about pure performance anymore. I watched that excellent Code vs. F4 comparision just posted in the other thread and could tell Iʻm probably not interested in F4. Sounds like a slightly more efficient version of what I have right now. Iʻd be stoked to ride it sometime, but Iʻm curious if thereʻs anything out there that just gives me a little more accurate output for whatever input I put into it. Iʻm thinking the best way to do that is start at the other end of the spectrum.
Also, tried to dock start my 1130s today, and it was a major fail. Probably tried 20 times. My dock sucks. Itʻs pretty much on the water, so itʻs more of a beach start. I got close a couple times, but I also have to jump laterally out a lot because the wing canʻt travel under the dock.
In contrast, I first day testing a metal business card as a stab and, while challenging, I got up and going about a 100m a couple times before I went down. I was shocked when I put my stab back on. It felt like I was pumping through mud.
Gonna be logging a lot of prone time right now, so Iʻll be experimenting with some of the suggestions others have made.
1 Like
I believe the Achilles heel of the Code Foil system is the bolt on rear stabilizer. There is ALOT of drag that comes from the fat rear fuselage as it enters the tail and just the fact that the fuselage under the tail needs to be fat to support the scews. Most people do not understand that this drag not only slows one down and limits pumping, it also is a form of stability, just like tying a tail on a kits adds stability so drag, especially back by the tail makes everything more stable, harder to turn etc. Axis has this same issue with the black and red fus with the bolt on tails as well (Axis fixed this with the new monobloc front wing and rear tail setup) I modded an Axis fuselage to minimize this and it still was a big issue. Now I ride a code 1250R with an F-One monobloc rear fus and tail and its epic. Going from stock to the monobloc tail made it about 10% easier to pump (no hard data on this) and looser as well. If you are crafty its not that hard a mod to do on the F-One tails. At some point there may be some solution to this, adaptor or aftermarket or even code solution, I don’t know any details. If I were you I would hang onto my Code gear and either wait for a Code mast upgrade or go aftermarket Code skinny mast, all the brands will go this way to skinny masts I am sure and then next I would go for a monobloc tail either down the road from Code or aftermarket or mod project like I did. I don’t prone, just dock foil so I cannot weigh in really on the foot loading issue. Here is a pic from my F-one tail mod,
Here is video tour of this mod build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVSH3XeIESY
Here is link to thread about this mod history and some build tips
Lastly here is video of me riding the modded 1250R, I feel it turns really well and is super efficient though again, I dockfoil and do not prone, vision is to learn beach starts next!!
I am not sponsored and buy all my gear retail or used to experiment with, I feel this supports the brands the most and allows me freedom to do whatever mods I want, ride whatever brands I want and share with some credibility the results I have. BeLove - Wes Lapp
3 Likes
Well done Wes, interesting points about drag.
Btw, I pieced back together my .5° baseplate shim and it noticeably helped in higher speed carves (fat end forward). Didn’t notice a tremendous difference in front foot pressure.
Just saw a proto F4 race mast at the beach (there’s a vid in the F4 thread). The chord is no more than 90mm and is like that for about the first 15cm from the fuse. Would make any foil extremely easy to initiate a turn. Most guys here in the Gorge aren’t using any F4 foil bigger than mid 700’s here so that mast will probably feel stiff enough.
The One Ocean 78SSS mast gave my Code S and R foils a noticeable increase in glide and turnability and it’s 102mm chord. It’s also at least as stiff as the 75cm Code HM mast with the 980S. I’ve used it with the 1075R and it’s “good enough”. It’s a great way to change the feel of a code or axis setup for pretty low $$. I don’t think Wes would like it with the 1250R though.
1 Like
I’m always changing brands, went from Code S-series to Duotone Crest & now Axis Surge.
The Surge (I have the 890) feels more back footed than both Code or Duo imo. But I do love the Surge, felt really pitchy until I moved it back quite a bit in the box compared to other brands I’ve had in the past.
The red line marked on the board is where it feels tuned correctly.
Interesting, that you find your Surge setup the most “back footed” of the three you mentioned. Is your One fuselage the further forward mast placement of the two they offer and what length rear fuse section are you using? That fuse is really the main reason I wanted to try the Surge 
I’ve got no really good reason to go that route, just to try a new feel. Love my Code stuff.
Success, 0.5 degree baseplate shim, fat end forward! Just tested this yesterday in waist to head high, 16s with my 850S. My takeoffs became effortless from the reduced lift while paddling in. Wider high speed turns required much less back foot and no change in pitch pressure when accelerating. Canʻt comment much on the pump. On bigger days like this Iʻm pretty much short boarding and trying to push the turns until I eat it. I did try to hop the shoulder and pump out a couple times and OMG was it bad. I wonder if itʻs my midlength board, but I cannot feel why Iʻm just pushing through the bottom. I wasnʻt amazing, but I could link with the 850s just fine on this setup in the past. Iʻve been riding only big wings and pump boards lately and itʻs ruined my pump on small wings. Hopefully it comes back in a couple sessions.
Now that Iʻm messing with pump foiling and having the chance to analyze how things feel/perform in glassy water with me providing the power, I understand why youʻd make all these mods. If youʻre just pumping, stiffness and efficiency seem like the most important metrics. Iʻm a little skeptical itʻs worth the trade-offs for prone. I went prone foiling with a buddy recently. I was on 1130s, standard 75 mast, and my chopped 120r tail (about 100cm2). He was on Lift 150 HAX, UHM mast, and 26 carve. Even though my front wing was considerably bigger, his felt too locked in and kind of slow. Iʻm curious at what point reduction in tail area trumps a more efficent monobloc fuse.
Iʻve never been a fan of monobloc rears. I want to adjust fuse length and tail independently for prone, but for pump foil, I understand now. I just want the stiffest setup, shortest fuse, and smallest tail I can handle.
Iʻm really surprised about the backfooted comment as well. Pitchyness and moving the mast back is what Iʻve heard in the past about Axis. Code is really stable though. Iʻm curious how the Surge compares to an equivalently sized Code S wing. I personally wasnʻt overly impressed with the Code X. I demoed the 810x and felt like it was kinda samey with the 720s for me. I was just trading a little glide and speed for slightly better low end and breeching.
That’s why I said the big foils don’t translate 
That base plate shim set up doesn’t pump because the foil is nose down. You’d have to intentionally pump with the board nose higher to be at your usual angle of attack… which will burn out your back leg. A problem solved has created another
Why is this always the case…
Not exactly, the foil always has the same angle of attack (for a given speed and rider weight) but the board will be more nose up by .5 degree
1 Like
That’s the ultra short titanium bit & long tail section from One with the Surf Skinny 300 stab.
A have a few buddies that also experienced the pitchy feeling on their first few glides on the Surge using the Axis ultrashort advance+ fuse.
I must add that the pitchy feeling was just something that we all felt when getting used to the Surge wing, I love this feeling now & describe it as a just very reactive feeling.
I have no regrets moving to the Surge with the One mast/fuse, best prone setup I’ve had to date.
1 Like
I was implying that the board wasn’t nose up which is why it didn’t pump
I don’t think it’s been depicted but on the subject baseplate shimming, the foil is riding at the same AOA regardless of the board pitch. Baseplate shims are meant to change the AOA of the board. I only had one setup that needed a baseplate shim and in comparison to a level ride, it felt like I was standing on a ramp.
1 Like
ive ridden tons of foils, and they all are “back footed”, its no different than a surfboard, its your back foot thats doing most of the work, i dont think you understand what you’re asking for. there is no front footed foil. you just adjust your mast based on your stance and preference, but it’ll never change that your back foot is doing 80% of the work when youre pumping. my back leg calf is huge compared to my front foot
Have you ridden GoFoil?
I’ve been really liking going -.25 (fat end forward) on the base plate with my code gear when the waves have any power. It was the magic adjustment that made it carve right without losing too much pump. The only problem is those 3rd printed .25 shims just don’t hold up. I wish they had some injection molded ones.
I think thatʻs what bdavis was saying, Iʻm messing up my pump because Iʻm probably trying to pump at the wrong board angle now that thereʻs a shim. Iʻd need initiate my hop at a little higher angle than Iʻm used to.
Iʻd probably agree with you about not knowing. The baseplate shim definitely cleared up the turns though. Zero leg burn. I know youʻve ridden a lot of stuff. You filled me in on Code in the past. Are the different brands more samey than Iʻm thinking these days?
No, I started after the GoFoil exodus. I know GoFoil is supposed to be very back in the boxes. Iʻd imagine that has to feel different.
Iʻll give this a try.
I didn’t press the reply button for @Meow re back footed.
As GoFoil is very front footed. Although haven’t ridden nalus.
I’ve switched to a 50 sqcm stab for dock and it’s really hard having to go back to 100 sqcm for parawing (as foot switches are just a bit too hard).
If you want to easily start small foils on a dock without an undercut I highly recommend the mini-tomahawk method. Since dialing it in it’s the only start I do any more, even with big wings (other than rock starts).
By the sound of it you might enjoy replacing your 1725S with a 1250 Orca. While I appreciate how surfy the 1725S is in small bumps pumping it on flat water it’s so slow and draggy feeling. The other day someone posted a video of them pumping the 685 Orca for 1:25 so with a bigger orca you’ll be able to get some decent cardio. Personally I pump the Takoon Pump Pro and love it, it’s got a similar shape to the Orca where it’s fat in the middle and thin in the tips.
1 Like