Talk me out of wanting new feels

Yeah, my .5° broke and I can see it’s mostly hollow. It should be possible to increase the infill next time.

I just tried the 1° yesterday fat end forward and had some of my best turns this year (and maybe ever). Definitely had to change stance a little pumping and be conscious of keeping the nose of the board up at slower speeds. I may just stick with the 980S again this season. Unless I can find a deal on an 850S :joy:

Thanks for the recommendation. Iʻm seriously going to try to learn this. If it opens up pumping smaller foils, I can at least practice with what Iʻm riding on in the surf.

From all accounts Iʻve heard the F4 stuff feels just like Code. I might demo sometime just to see, but I think Iʻd like to try something as different as possible in feel. To be honest, Iʻve always been relative crap at pumping things much under 1000cm2. We have long distance pumps, and I used to be able to link one at that distance, but feedback wise, Codeʻs always felt kinda like it never wants to lift up on the smaller wings. It doesnʻt drive forward and I feel like the board doesnʻt even lift when I jump. Bigger wings, Iʻll keep it skimming the surface, oscillate mast height, and play with speed. I have pretty much full control. It would be great to feel something push back on my front foot when I jump up.

Just tried the 0.25 baseplate shim today, fat end forward. Noticeably worse than 0.5. Still kinda divey in the turns. I shifted my feet around, to ride more back, but it kinda wasnʻt the same.

I have learned that the rear tail angle is very important in how much the feet pump equally or more of the rear leg pumping. This is all from dockfoiling. If the front of the tail is shimmed down then the tail will make more downforce and this “auto pumps” the board, in other words the board will “natually” nose up and to pump you must push the nose down to initiate the pump. You also will need to stand more forward to balance on the board over the lift of the front wing as the rear wing in making negative (downward lift). I have measured all these things from dockfoiling and this also aligns with stability and control theory from aircraft, more tail down moves the center of lift forward which makes the aircraft more stable (I am an aerospace engineer). What you see when someone is dockfoiling this way is the board pitches up and down alot and their front leg pushes down first then their back leg follows. When the front of the tail is shimmed up and the tail either produces less downforce or none or even some upforce this make the pitch control less stable or even unstable and it makes it so very little force is required to pitch the board up or down so you have to initiate both the up pump and the down pump so its harder to ride until you get used to it. The benefit is the front and back leg move up and down almost at exactly the same time and with almost exactly the same force. So to summarize this for pumping, if you back leg is burning too much you should shim the front of your tail down. It will be a bit harder to ride until you get used to it though it will glide more and take much less effort. Here is a video on a stock axis 1150 wing with 460 tail and no shim, this is typically how beginner and intermediate foils are set up as they are easier to learn on and do not require exact foot placement. You can see how the board pitches up and down alot and my back leg is doing most of the work and my front leg is mainly just initiating the down pump and the board initiates the up pump on its own.

This next vido is me riding a axis 1201 with a 360/45 skinny tail. The tail is shimmed nose up quite a bit so the stability is almost neutral. You can see my legs pump at almost the same time and the board angle is much much less pitching up and down, this evens the leg burn out alot.

This is all from dockfoiling, I have no idea how this affects a prone setup. Even though these videos are of different foils, if I shimmed the front of the tail down on the axis 1201 setup in the second video the pumps would look much like the first video, much more pitching up and down and much more burn on the rear leg. If there is alot of interest in this topic or its very controvercial I could make a video with the same setup shimmed excessively both ways so its very clear and apples to apples comparison.

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If you get a chance try and Demo a FLITELab Flux. We worked really hard on keeping the front foot pressure throughout the turns as we found you can push harder in turns with more consistent pressure rather than transferring your weight from front to back foot on every turn. It took us many protos to get this right with the foil section. But if you want something that feel different to a Code then the Flux is one option out there. Mast is crazy stiff too, giving you a very direct feel.

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nah i wouldnt suggest that. i hate the 1540s for pumping, i much prefer the 1300s, and obv the 1250R. i hate how draggy the 1540s feels for pumping, just a personal preference, although it has started to grow on me a bit after i figured out more how to keep it in its sweet speed range. the orcas dont pump like the codes at all. They are slightly less forgiving, you need to keep your speed good and mast height good (since the masts are 3cm higher without asking for it vs 75 code). As a benefit of doing this, you end up going like 30% faster and cover 30% more distance than the code for the same overall effort. I think if you really want to get to a high level with real foils (not super big draggy pump foils with huge tails), then the orca is the way to go because it teaches you efficiency is gained by going fast, not slow.

i was disappointed that i wasnt going like 2x longer duration on the orca vs the R which was what i expected when i droppe the $$$$. I am going the same duration, someties longer, sometimes shorter but im covering way more ground and speed. the code though seems to have better low end grunt, and its sweet spot seems more on the lower end, so it feels like u can milk the low end a bit more, but then again youre losing out on efficiency as its slow and draggy (even the 1250r)

I tried the flux, solid foil, nothing bad to say about it, but in terms of pumping and glide its sits in between a silk and a code S. Turning is around the same in between. Just as the AR indicates. Nothing at all wrong with the foil, but its not the best turner or best pumper. It has a good combination of both, but leans towards being a good turner. And I remember the front foot pressure thing, it defintiely felt like more balanced on the front foot as you said.

This isn’t about the tail as much as the design of the front wing. The old PNG series like a really porpoise like pump, modern wings like a smaller more level pump.

Slappy - You are absolutely correct, and this is a very important point, especially for folks coming off foils that are 2 or 3 or 4 years old. the 1150 liked a very porpise like pump, actually it liked pretty much any type of pump you threw at it. The original Axis 1300 was different, maybe 1/2 way to the modern foils in requiring a “smoother” more fluid pump with less pitch up and down. The Axis 1201 was my next foil and required an even more deliberate “articulated” pump. Now I am on a Code 1250R and it pumps a bit less like the 1201, maybe 10% more toward the old Axis 1300, the Code 1250R pumps really nicely though and the 1250R is hardly a new modern foil as its been out for 2 years now and alot has happened since then. I got to dockstart a F-4 Orca 1250 one evening and did 4 or 5 rides on it. I got it right away, the Orca 1250 handles very well and the pump is precise and efficient. The Orca 1250 for sure is 10 to 15% easier energy output wise to ride than the stock 1250R (it felt about the same as my modified 1250R). The Orca 1250 is the nicest stock dockfoil I have ever ridden, although I feel like the Code 1250R with a skinny mast and monobloc tail would be very comparable (maybe a bit more low end). At the same time I have coached dozens of dockfoilers at my local dock here in Hood River and universally if they say they want to pump more like me, more even and fluid, I have them shim the front of their tale up so the tail doesn’t “force” the up pump initiation and universally once they get used to it they pump more evenly with much more balanced effort from front to back foot. I have seen this over and over again on many different foils so same rider, same foil, raise the front of the tail and unlock more even pumping, once I saw this on a pumpscooter as well coaching a friend. This is all just dockfoiling though, I am not sure how it translates to prone surfing and turning and swell riding.

What filament are you using and what infill?