Not sure about that, I have a Pocketwing and now have BRM and there’s a big difference in packdown between them. If I were only doing downwinders and never needed to go above a broad reach, Pocket wing might still be my choice since it packs down super small.
I feel like for now at least, there’s going to be a tradeoff between upwind performance/stability vs ease of packdown. I’ve seen some pictures of Sam the pocketwing guy on some prototypes and it seems like he’s sticking with the super compact concept but getting a flatter profile that appears to go upwind better.
I think that the big innovation to come will be a better packdown method that prevents tangles and lets you go hands free in one or two quick moves. Currently you have to douse the canopy, roll/pack it up and stuff it into the belt. Doing that on foil while reading bumps is really hard and there are so many opportunities for tangles when you pull the wing back out to relaunch.
Been collecting snap shots of the different brands. Can see a lot of differences in these images. Ensis is doing fewer bridle attachment points. Gong leading edge isn’t well filled out. Not enough wind, I’d assume. D-wing looks very well defined shape wise in flight.
Is there any particular reason (besides the obvious making a quick buck) that all these paraglider companies are jumping on the parawing trend? From what i can tell, none of them were making kites at all. The crossover between a ram air race kite and a paraglider seems a lot greater than to a parawing. Did they all wake up because it has para in the name?
I’d say they were pretty surprised with the initial interest in the BRM & saw an untapped market. Since they design & make these things all the time it would be a pretty easy add on to their existing range. Have a listen to the ensis boys podcast. I’d say to most of the designers it would be a weekend homework assignment.
Kitesurfing kites will likely remain a niche market, with foil kites being an even smaller segment.
In contrast, parawings have the potential to reach a much broader audience. They present fewer safety risks and liability concerns for brands, making them more attractive for mass production and marketing.
Parawings are also simpler to design, test, and manufacture. Given the limited refinements currently available in V1 versions, entering this market is significantly easier compared to many years of foil kite improvements
I understand that it’s significantly lower barrier to entry than kites with a less saturated market (although soon to be very saturated). I’m just questioning if there is any reason to believe that a paraglider brand has any competive advantage in making these vs a more water sports oriented brand. Im not particularly interested in buying some designer’s weekend homework assignment. I suspect BRM spent a very significant amount of time for R&D. Of course it’s a lot easier to copy an existing product, but i still think it requires domain knowledge, dedication and time to create a good product.
I feel like the BRM is still the simplest and most compact design on the market. All of the paraglider designs look like they will not pack down as small as the BRM. Other than the price premium I have no regrets about being an early adopter as I still would choose the BRM today because I value simple small pack down designs for dw assist.
I am skeptical about the non pack down while riding use cases. If you are not going to pack it down while riding I think a wing is better for most people. Perhaps there is a large enough market for those wanting to setup their own downwinders by riding upwind and packing down to switch to sup which justifies these more complicated designs…we’ll see.
For free ride and wave ride kite foiling I believe the FS Peaks were superior in performance to inflatable kites for dw drift, yet they remained a small portion of the market because people were intimidated by the bridles and the trade offs that come with single skin kites. I think the parawing market will be similarly small.
I hope I am wrong because I love the competition that a strong market drives, and I am personally super excited about the sessions that Parawings enable.
The winner to me will be the most compact design with low end grunt to get going with the smallest size while still providing some depower range. Upwind ability just needs to be average for my use case.
My guess is the margins are good, and parawings could eventually eat the market for downwind boards, paddles, and maybe wings for non-dw use altogether.
Yeah, inflatable hand wings suck so much I don’t really care about these things as a DW assist but any change from inflatables has to be an improvement. Also if you think we’re small potatoes the global paraglider market is MINISCULE. They’ll take whatever they can get
The margins right now are ridiculous.
The build time for these workshops is like laughable.
And so carefree for a paraglider manufacturer that has to certify every glider in every size and guarantee the safety of it’s construction and design ,even when flown by people who should not even cross a street by themselves…anybody here who has flown has seen things
The Flow paraglider designer is also a kiter. https://flowkiteboarding.com.au/
So my logic says that guy should be a capable tester of his own parawing.
I think you have it backwards, a Paraglider company (or ram air kite company like FS) will be the ones with the design advantage because designing air stabilized aero foils is the heart of what they do. Once Ozone joins the market the will probably have the best experience to create a great product being both a paragliding company and a ram air kite company.
If your goal is best pack down like 321-foiler then sure, BRM might be in the best space for that product. I personally want something that flies exceptionally well (like my beloved Peaks) and still packs down easily enough (I have Dwings on order).
I was quite surprised by the material that the BRM parawing is made from, it’s not your typical ripstop and feels 2-3 times thinner. It will yield very small pack downs but I do worry about longevity.
Paraglider manufacturers will certainly have an advantage in design and production. They’re already building them on a larger scale. Companies like Flow, 777 and Ozone will probably rule the market as they have the software already to design the fabric cross bracing that will eliminate half the lines (or more).
Much like they did with there wings, I don’t see Ozone producing anything competitive in performance for several generations. Just solid simple designs that they can sell a lot of. They’re certainly the most capable company but it’s just not profitable for them to chase performance yet.
