Do any of you ride a trench board without Foil Drive? I keep wondering if running an 80cm mast on a trench board, to effectively make it the length of a 75cm mast from the bottom of the board, would be a good idea. I can imagine that having the base plate so close to your back foot might be awesome of control and foil feel. Any downsides to doing something like that?
Yeah, but there are all sorts of wrongs on that board. That’s a board without floatation in the tail. A well-designed trench board will still have volume in the tail.
Plus, I think that with any board, nuances in the shape make a big difference. A trench is way different than that original Ginxu… so WAY more than just a nuance.
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Be careful because not every mast will work with every trench board when the Foil Drive unit is removed. For example, the base plate of my Lift M2 mast is wider than the width of my Appletree Zapple. The mast base plate simply does not fit within the space of the trench.
You might consider the DC “Super Trench” as it should fit just about any mast base plate and has the added advantage of being able to change batteries without removing the Foil Drive unit. They claim that the wider trench does not result in any increased drag, but I’m a little skeptical. Also consider that the added drag of an empty trench board may outweigh the benefit of having the mast closer to your foot.
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Thanks. That’s REALLY important to know. BTW, my main focus would be for prone… so I’m not sure a bit more drag would matter too much as compared to trying to take off with a wing in lightwind.
You don’t always need floatation in the tail, that is, if the wind is stronger. And it worked no problem in some pretty light winds as well. 32 L in these clips.
The feeling of how connected to the foil you are on such a thin board is super nice. No doubt a trench board with a very thin deck (where the foil is connected) feels nice too, without the foil drive.
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I’m intrigued how much wind you are needing for that water start in the first video? Great stuff and aspirational for sinker board riding, but I think I’ve only tried it with too little wind. TIA
In my mind a mast that is 5cm longer would add more flex to the feel of a foil that the stiffness of a board that is 5cm thicker with a mast that is 5cm shorter. You aren’t really riding the base plate you are riding the foil at the end of your mast.
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This is incorrect sir. Or rather, only partially correct. Yes, you are riding foil at the end of the mast, but the amount of flex introduced by the thickness of the board is way more than what s slightly longer mast introduces. The reason for the longer mast is that oftentimes you need it. Consider this. If you are surfing a 75cm mast and you drop it into a trenchboard without FD, let’s assume the trench is 5cm, so that effectively reduces the distance between the bottom of the board and foil effectively given you the height of a 70cm mast. If you are used to surfing a 70cm mast, then fine. But if you are constantly clipping the board’s rails while turning because the mast is now too short, then now you have a problem. I know a number of really good prone foilers that ride an 80cm mast on a regular board for this very reason. I’m riding a 75cm because I don’t like to constantly hitting the bottom while paddling. But I would not like a 70 mast.
Now, I’m sure on some days, riding that “shortened” mast might not be a problem at all, but my point is that I was trying to match the length from the bottom of the board. Reason I suggested an 80cm to match the height.
I think you should give it a go.
I just did a prone session yesterday on a 60cm mast. I really had no choice if I wanted to get a session in. During the session the tide came up. Changed to a 68cm mast. Today on 85cm mast with foildrive. Granted, not trying to carve turns on shorter mast. kind of fun to pump the 60, trying to keep foil in water. I think changing things up in the long run helps.
Curious to see how it goes, I’m thinking of trying it also, just haven’t had the opportunity as of yet.
Nice. I normally wing a 90cm mast, so when I switch to the 75 for prone it takes me some time to stop breaching it. Haha. Last session went really well though. But I’m mainly riding a large Armstrong 65ML because it’s mostly all thigh-high summer slop right now. The ML makes it easy to paddle in.
I think it would be better to just use a thinner board from tip to tail. Something tells me that it will throw off the swing weight.
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Hi David, once we start getting real waves again I’m going to start dropping down to my smaller boards. I do have a 39L Appletree Pro Foil V2. I’ve actually had that board since 2022… but the couple of times I paddled that out I realized my skills weren’t there. I think it’s possible that at this point I’ll be fine with that board. Specially after I put in a few more sessions this summer. Maybe at that point I won’t even care about the trench board idea.
Depending on the construction of the board I am not sure I 100% agree. An 85cm mast of the same construction vs an 80cm is definitely more flexi. I have tested the deflection of the same 80cm mast on a 2.5" thick board and a 4" thick board and the deflections was exactly the same proving out the board flex doesn’t change depending on thickness given the same construction. I am sure there is a limit but for the general thickness of boards I think this applies. My theory is most people find the thinner boards more responsive because the board is so much lighter hence they fell more connected with the Foil. Same goes for riding a 4’6 board vs a 4’0 board of the same thickness where the 4’0 you feel more connected with the foil as everything is more responsive. I get the point of different mast lengths but given the choice I would rather shorten my mast to gain a stiffer mast.
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I guess that’s a pretty good point.
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From my experience, the trench makes the take off stickier when prone foiling. Winging isn’t super noticible since you’re powered up but as you mentioned, it also makes the mast feel shorter and more likely to breach.
I didn’t really feel any performance gains in responsiveness. Felt nice and easy to pump since it was easier to stay high on the mast but honestly I expected it to feel worse. If I only had a trench board, I wouldn’t mind using it for multiple disciplines, especially if I had a designated FD mast & a longer classic mast.
I tested this with a 40L KT Super K2 trench proto / KT Atlas 830 / 77cm Carbon mast.
Thanks. That’s really good feedback. I should have probably pointed out that my entire thought that triggered starting this thread came about mostly regarding bigger boards for prone. For example, between 50-65L (which is the limit I can duckdive). Larger boards like that could see the most improvement in responsiveness from having less foam above the mast plate.
This.
It is unlikely that the 5cm of mast you add
produce less flex than 5 cm of board you save with a trench.
Also the feeling of disconnection from the foil doesn’t come from board thickness.
It comes from distance between feet and foil, and flex of materialS on this distance.
At equivalent stiffness of the setup, adding 5cm of board or 5cm of mast gives the same feeling.
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I had a bit of a revelation last week riding a 75cm mast. It felt incredibly responsive. So I’m following you here. HOWEVER, I did as one more variable: I was winging my 55ML, when I’m using on my 65ML. So… I did add stiffness and responsiveness there too… so it wasn’t a fully scientific test. But I’m starting to think you might be right about feeling a 5cm difference in mast stiffness. More testing to come….