Topic starter switching from a thread inside the Lift foils thread.
Mostly playing devils advocate but I’ve found I’m gradually moving away from prone foiling and starting to longboard (surf) more when the waves are tiny. Still winging whenever it’s 8+knots which is almost everyday here.
Benefits of winging:
-It’s like prone on steroids, you can catch 100 waves and have a blast on windswell or real swell.
-No need to constantly upgrade your gear like prone foiling, less sensitive to foil technicalities.
-No need to shuttle like DW foiling.
-Can do it in breaking, unbreaking, or no waves at all.
-Avoids lineup crowd issues (surf foiling is ok but can freak surfers out in the lineup, efoiling/foildriving is just shameful in a lineup and bad for foiling), when winging there’s typically noone surfing or they are real beginners surfing slop
Sometimes it’s nice to just be an anonymous surfer instead of “the guy on the foil”
Realistically how many foilers can a break hold? Two in addition to all the regular surfers? It can give a bad vibe to a lineup when you are zipping around with a razor blade. I almost always foil alone/isolated but it’s fun to surf in a small lineup with friends too.
Plus it’s great to hang ten, walk the board, and catch waves with ease.
it’s different for everyone and everything changes but I thought you guys may be interested in this personal phase/topic
Both very valid points. It’s tough to surf with people I haven’t converted to foil yet. After a wave I can be 300 meters up the beach - not super social.
and it’s strange to say this but when you surf with a non-foiler you are having such a perceived (and often true) better time than them it can actually make your friend less satisfied with their experience, if that makes sense.
I’m going in the complete opposite direction as you. Don’t want to wing anymore and exclusively want to prone. Your opinions are all true though esp the lineup crowds.
Despite those I still choose prone over winging:
Holding a wing sucks, and winging in a straight line on flat water isn’t fun.
Most winging “waves” are mostly just wind chop, its not a real wave. Depends on where you go I guess.
Using smaller thinner boards is much better than bulky wing boards
Waterstarts suck
Lots of gear to deal with
One good prone wave is worth 10-20 winging waves due to smaller board and not holding a wing
I enjoy the cardio and physical challenge of it
I enjoy the process of paddling and popping up and trying to make a drop
Its harder, doing something that less people can do just feels more satisfying for some reason.
Being solely reliant on your body’s physical capabilities (paddling and pumping) vs the wind is also satisfying for some reason
I don’t worry about scaring surfers and I don’t think people should think about this much at all as long as you are being safe by staying on shoulders/inside and picking good lines.
In order to try to soften the lineup problem I just ordered a mid length prone board to open up the places at the break I can paddle in on so that should help out there.
All forms of foiling are awesome. If it’s not windy prone, or for us older mobility scooter users Foil Drive. When it’s windy go wing, nothing beats it if there is wind. Don’t like holding the wing in the waves? Drop it with a drift anchor.
I will say I have done a few downwinders on the FD now and that’s pretty freaking awesome and it will definitely compete with winging when there are obvious seams running down the coast. The only problem is you have to do a longer distance as your runs are short vs wing. I personally don’t find going upwind on a FD enjoyable wings way better for that.
Now if I could chip in reliably without the FD that might compete even more with winging days. But it’s just good to have options.
The elephant in the room is dw sup which is arguably peak of the foiling food chain, but I have tried it and I have such a big hill to climb I will be holding off until I feel like I hit a progression wall.
Wish I felt the urge to just surf a long board but I just don’t. We regularly have a big group of prone foilers in the line up locally and it’s never been an issue. Foiling gets rid of the scarcity problems of surfing.
And can we stop the razor blades and swords nonsense. One thing for the grumpy long boarders to say it but we should be the ambassadors for the sport. Foils are just big fins. I always flip my board over and wack the front of the foil to anyone who expresses interest so we can start to chip away at that perception.
I’m not going to get into the “best,” but one other factor in winging is that you can use the most rippable foil for the conditions and don’t have to compromise any performance for pump. Maybe because I suck, but I can’t pump small gear for multiple connections and I’d have to increase size or AR on my foil for prone or DW, even when the waves suit a small foil. With a wing I do lap after lap using a smaller, lower AR foil when I definitely couldn’t use that gear prone.
Once you are used to managing a wing it really becomes second nature and doesn’t really get in the way too much.
If I had better conditions for prone or downwind, I’d definitely spend a lot of time doing those too, so for me it just comes down to what you have access to and what discipline suits those conditions.
Is there actually a choice to be made? Are there days where you have to decide between prone and wing foiling? I would have thought a good day for proning is a bad day for winging and vice-versa.
For me, good wing spots are close enough to hit after work, and the closest bad prone spot is a three hour drive.
If winging is less physical than prone your doing it wrong. I ride pretty much the exact lines prone and winging, it’s just on the wing there’s no rest.
Windy with swell or waves = winging.
No wind with waves = prone.
Easy spot to shuttle with fun social people or feeling like an adventure = DWsup.
Light wind at a flat spot = kite foil.
Hollow waves at an uncrowded spot with friends = performance shortboard and just get obliterated while everyone laughs at each other.
Coming from a surfing background I HATED learning to wing initially, it was cold, windy and choppy and I had this stupid wing that kept getting in the way
Well fast forward a few months and it’s become my favourite of the foil disciplines but we are pretty lucky down here to have good setups for flat water, bay waves, surf waves/reefs and downwinders so the wing opens up a lot of those. For outright time on foil and being able to dial in setups it’s pretty great as well.
I’ve also found myself starting to favour my SUP foil over the prone setup on the non wind days, the ability to chip into the smallest of waves and in some ways throw it into turns harder is great fun plus I enjoy the “paddle fitness”
Prone is hugely rewarding when I get it right but it seems to have become the most finicky for conditions but when we have a nice bank with a good chip in and minimal surfers it still has it’s place
Downwinding sounds like it would tick a lot of boxes for me but I too cannot get past the shuttle/car trips. Being stuck in traffic is like my anti chill that foiling gives me.
Are there plans out there for building a tow boogie? Have not checked in awhile.
But I would say I don’t see how a tow boogie would be much fun when it’s windy with all the chop. Plus unless you have the summon feature there will be lots of paddling. Winging in the waves is just non stop action. Best eco tow assist out there.
Sounds like some walk away from winging before they get over the learning curve. Managing the wing becomes a pretty minor issue after awhile.
Absolutely agree, wings above 4M are really in the way during downwind wave riding. Would even go so far as to say it’s a little harder than downwinding with a paddle in hand.
Regarding the shuttle issue, I’m having a blast winging upwind, deflating and leaving the wing under a log on the beach, then supfoiling back to the car… repeat. Bicycle is also working great for short runs. My wings may last the rest of my life this way.
Occasionally I’ll go out and wing around on the 60 liter but in 45 minutes I’ve lost interest since the waves went away for the season
I love my wings. And wake foiling. Between those two disciplines I’m satisfied. I come from sailing and racing so I’m generally interested in powered up riding. If there’s not enough wind to wing, I’ll wake foil or do something else.
Never been a surfer, and I don’t live near any good surfing. Prone looks fun and really challenging and if I lived near the beach I would try. But I don’t.
SUP foiling doesn’t interest me in the slightest because I already do the most fun part of it with my wing (downwaving) and I don’t feel the need to start over learning to foil with a paddle. Also I have no interest in shuttling with a vehicle. I enjoy leaving and returning to the same place, often times just a short a walk from my house. If I lived somewhere that was great for downwinding, I might try it. But even then I wouldn’t start until I could basically ride an entire downwind run without falling (routine with my wing.)
I thought it was really interesting last Sunday at the Blowout from Stevenson to Hood River that I didn’t see a single SUPfoiler participating. 90+ people and not a one SUP. 15 miles of delicious downwind but it was all kites and wings.
