I recently wanted to switch from Axis to KT Atlas for parawing, but still keep Axis for pumpfoiling. I saw Jim Stringfellow was making custom KT fuses that have an Axis compatible socket and I though it was a great idea to reduce gear clutter and keep costs down.
Sadly this turned out to be anything but the case. I put together the Atlas 1340 and tested it out, things didn’t feel right at all. Then I noticed that the front wing would come loose after each run pumping it. Jim provided me with a fuse who’s front wing seat was not in correct spec for the KT wing seat. Unfortunately my Atlas 1340 seat also had some errors in it. The result was that the front and the rear screw were fighting each other instead of holding the two seats together. My KT rep, without any hassle said he’d take back the 1340 and give me a new one which was great. It took 5 weeks before the replacement came in (as well as my Atlas 960 I had also ordered).
Jim had also provided one 15 mm screw and one 20 mm screw for the fuse (KT uses both screws 24 mm) for some strange reason, when I asked him why he said “I’m unsure why I sent these other than this is a new product line I am working on and I haven’t confirmed which screws to order so sent screws I knew would work that also happened to be in my inventory.” There was enough thread in the fuse to fully bury 25 mm screws in both holes.
At this point I realized that I had spent a lot of money on KT front+rear wings and was risking their performance to this custom fuse. I frankly just didn’t trust that this $370 custom fuse was going to allow me to get the most out of my KT gear. So I ordered a KT fuse and a KT carbon mast so I could trust the entire kit’s performance.
Once I got the new Atlas wings I checked the fit on the new KT fuse and they both fit perfectly. I never checked if the original 1340 fit on a real KT fuse as I had given it back to the dealer. Then I tried the custom fuse on the new wings and there was still a teeter in the fit which would cause the screws to fight each other (more so on the 1340 than 960, the 960 was close to fitting).
When I informed Jim of this he claimed that his fuse was to spec but I had bent the aluminum by using it on the original 1340. He offered a $100 rebate.
I explained that I had only used it for about 4 minutes, there were no signs of any stress on the anodization layer (which happens when anodized aluminum bends) and that a carbon wing should not be able to bend the aluminum fuse seat. I told him it would take at least 1/2 the cost of the product back to “make things right”.
He then proceeded to ghost me and add my email address to his spam filter. Now I am left with a $370 paper weight and a pair of mismatched M8 screws.
Counterpoint - I don’t think anyone in the custom machining and prototyping industry even opens their shop door for under $1000. Jim has contributed a lot to this whole “foiling” thing and the fact that you can get someone to correspond over email, design and make a thing for less than 4x what the brands charge for the same part mass produced in CHYNAH is crazy. He does this bit for fun, you bugged him enough it stopped being fun.
Sorry this happened to you, definitely a bummer of an experience and juggling third party parts can be tricky. I also recognize that in your other thread some people jumped on the idea that it was the fuses fault right away which can muddle up your thought process on everything. (but you did try to focus on the idea that it may have been the foils fault, so good on ya there).
However, you did post that other video where the original 1340 foil you had clearly was not flat, with a significant rock in the mating platform on one side. Plenty enough it seemed to create the gaps and lifted trailing edge you pointed out. Doing 4 minutes of pump foiling without the bolts correctly tightened down because the mating surface has a lump in it could, in my mind, very well bend/damage the fuse.
Do your new front wings and new fuse have flat surfaces? If that’s the case then I think you have the answer as uncomfortable as it may be. Like Jim said, it probably was damaged by the original 1340 which based on your video looked to have a significant issue.
I’d encourage you to try and patch things up with Jim. He’s a nice guy and you’re going to want to order more parts from him in the future to go with your sweet One Ocean mast.
If it really was an issue with the KT foil you could always ask them to kick you a free tail or something else for your troubles. That would offset your fuse loss and perhaps reset some good will for all parties involved.
I know a very few people who are as fair and patient as Jim is. He 's an industry gem so I find it hard to believe he did you in, rather you might be grateful he offered you $100 in return.
" Unfortunately my Atlas 1340 seat also had some errors in it." - So you used a defective wing seat on a perfectly good custom fuselage, that had a bunch of wobble in it, then had the defective wing replaced and now you claiming all that wobble on 1340(big) wing couldn’t have caused damage to Jim’s fuselage. Sounds like you should have warrantied the wing first before trying ride a wobbly connection from the manufacturer.
I guess you can’t please all the people all the time.
First I should note that Jim did respond to my email (because of the post) and he says he didn’t block my emails on purpose. I suppose his mail server just uses very simple spam filtering rules as my email to him was part of a long chain and contained the In-Reply-To and References headers that modern mail servers would use to verify that it was not spam. I guess I should have considered that this was the case but after waiting 11 days for a response and then getting the bounced email when I asked if he had ghosted me it sure felt like it was on purpose. I would not have posted anything naming Jim had he still been engaging with me on the issue, this issue started in early May after all.
Thank you for the constructive reply Wouzel.
If I believed the fuse was bent I would think Jim’s offer was more than fair. The trouble is that there is no evidence of any deformation in the fuse. I actually think the issue with the fuse is the area around the side where it’s cut away so the fuse mates flush with the wing.
I took my KT fuse seat and used it to compare the flatness of the custom fuse seat, they mate together perfectly, no teeter at all.
My apologies, I thought it was bent or obviously deformed in some way, I realize I didn’t accurately grasp your original post but the pictures help tons.
Super strange though, I don’t see anything that looks off. Are you able to work with Jim and/or KT to try and figure out exactly where the issue might be? Grab those calipers and straight edges to start comparing! Maybe pack that joint with colored putty, screw it down, squish out the excess putty and try to spot exactly where the joint oddity is happening? I’m genuinely curious about what’s not right here.
Should be pretty easy to figure out what’s wrong. I’d start with checking these pictures again. Look at all these very funny angles - either the screws are badly bent, or the fuse, or perhaps they were already that way to begin with? Anyway, it does not look anything like the KT fuse (lower pic) is supposed to look like.
Sounds like you’re not a good candidate for custom or mod gear. Buy production stuff where a shop or sales rep can help you through things.
In this case, it sounds like you bent a fuse and then Jim offered you $100, which didn’t meet some threshold in your head so you bagged on him a few places online. . not cool.
Jim has been nothing but epic for my shop and making custom adapters for my customers. Never had anything like this. Pretty epic to get some custom stuff to tinker with for a few $100 to save 1000’s!
Id agree here. The custom stuff is really for tinkerers who want to drop some coin to collab with the BEST tinkerer. If you’re not in already in the building/repairing/testing mindset it’s not for you. If you aren’t in tune enough to understand those fit issues and articulate them with a set of calipers prior to riding it’s probably not for you.
The fact that you are going on multiple sites and bashing Jim and he doesn’t need to respond to defend himself because his customers do it for him speaks volumes. It sounds like you got a bad wing from KT, bent the fuse and now aren’t happy about it. I am pretty sure he got the CAD files direct from KT
I find it hard to conceive how the fuse would bend in this direction without any signs of stress on the aluminium. I do think it is a bit rough to only get a small fractional rebate but left with an unusable product, i would expect that if there was some sort of minor cosmetic like the anodising fell off significantly. This is all assuming there has been little investigation and explanation into the bent nature of the fuse.. I’d be hoping for more closure than what was shared. I.e. if he assured in his QC that he tests the connection with a front wing before sending. i dont think all the personal attacks and the character references are very helpful in diagnosing the remaining questions in the issue.
Another possibility is that KT sent a defective prototype to Jim.
Either way, there should be a way to work this out. That would probably help everyone here and Jim too as it would bolster his already stellar reputation.
Thats interesting. I feel like brands would not be supportive of custom fuselage design because it means the brand will miss out on the mast ($$$) and fuselage sales. Still, he may have just borrowed a wing or owns one for himself. Anyway, I just don’t understand why a machining error is not a possibility, given it happens all the time with brands.
Sadly it seems Jim has no interest in even investigating this, once the slight rocker on the wing seat was discovered he only pointed to that as the entire reason it didn’t fit. He didn’t even want to see pictures or video of the fit on my new KT wings or the state of the custom fuse seat. He told me “You chose to use it with a defective KT wing” like I knew the wing seat was bad in some way when I tested it. I simply put the 2 parts together, screwed them tight and then used them. The connection would then come loose under load.
A few days later he Paypal’d me $100 even though I had told him $100 would not make things right.
Jim never addressed any of my concerns in my emails, simply stated the offered $100 return. I sent another email to him with pictures of the flatness of the fuse seat (similar to the ones I posted above) and again told him I think the problem isn’t the seat but the flange cut away. I had told him that I suspected this was the original problem months ago as well.
I never got another response from Jim, I’ve tried calling him on the phone multiple times over multiple days. My last email to him was over 2 weeks ago.
According to Jim he was given the CAD file for the KT, but his fuse is heavily modified from the KT fuse, it wasn’t just a case of changing out the mast connection part. I believe his focus was to make it as thin and light as possible as it’s quite a bit less beefy than the KT fuse.
I might try and Dremel down the part I highlighted back in early May and see if that fixes the fit issue. Trouble with that is that will remove the anodization layer there and I have no clue how that would effect the part.
Instead of grinding it down, have you considered just eliminating the play by moulding a carbon shim between the two parts? Mould release both seat surfaces and masking tape around it. 2 to 3 layers of 6oz glass/carbon epoxy patch over the surfaces. Clamp it down tight. Cure, release, trim.
Bummer. Sounds like no help from KT with offering a credit either.
My advice:
At this point it sounds like Jim has spoken his piece, refunded what he will, and moved on. I doubt you’ll get anything but more frustration if you keep fighting with that fuse. You’ll be doing nothing but picking at an open wound. Package it up, ship it back to Jim, and include a written letter practicing the long lost art of saying you’re sorry. Even if you don’t think you’re at fault, even if you think KT and Stringfellow are both the problem. Just say you’re bummed things didn’t work out, that your frustration is real, and that you’re sorry if you pushed the wrong buttons or said the wrong things.
Don’t expect a response or anything else, just move on. Tell yourself FML, that was unlucky. Then, go have some fun on your full KT kit. Life’s a lot better on the water than in these forums.
. not cool.
