I’ve spent a lot of time breaking down different styles of pumping and for me the best is a 2 to 1 cadence in swing. So two pumps to one arm swing. More back than forward, but still going forward. A big mistake I watch folks make is side arm swing. You don’t swing your arms sideways when you’re running forward. So from the front hip forward with the front hand, but abruptly stop it so that momentum translates to deweighting. You can see Brady Hurley do this, and the back arm kind of just comes a bit forward but up. Then pushing down with the pump and going back as you project forward. Nathan and Kane have some of the best technique. Can’t believe they were left out of this thread. I think all back is more like a grave dig before you’ve hit rhythm. You see Adam do it a lot as he’s on small foils and you’re always pushing them.
Thanks Erik! Super useful to hear it from you.
Yes this is perfect description
I tried but couldn’t find a youtube video of them doing it, all on instagram which doesn’t help with the slowmo. Kane and Nathan do it perfectly on their no-paddle flat water popups. I’ll try find something.
The learning really begins when you move down to very small high aspect wings as your technique needs to be very refined for success. It is on these small high aspect that the forward stroke becomes very subtle as during this stroke the most angle of attack change occurs as you go for height increase as opposed to the back swing where your trying to accelerate.
If you are not subtle and refined with the forward stroke it is here during the greater angle of attack change the foil will drop out if everything is not in order.
When you go back to a slightly larger foil it is amazing how much easier it becomes due to the refinement you endured on the smaller foil.
Wake theif is not a good pumper at all in my opinion.
Oskar is good to study because he has a very animated style where he really emphasizes weighting and body movement both pumping and on waves.
Keahi is the style master if you want to copy the prettiest with technical perfection.
WakeThief may not be a great pumper (he’s definitely competent), but he has given the best explanation I’ve seen for the pump sequence: Drive, Float, Climb and Load. And he also gives a great tip about pitching the nose down before beginning the drive phase.
Oskar is one of the best pumpers in the world, but the way he explains his pumping does NOT match what he is actually doing.
Brady Hurley has the most efficient pump style that I’ve seen. Minimal arm swing, he shifts his weight forward to pitch the nose down before starting the DRIVE phase of the pump. I had to download the video and watch it in slow motion before I noticed the slight weight shift. He is riding the Lift 170HA in the IG clip.
Adam Bennetts has an exaggerated movement to get weight over his front foot, which also pitches the nose down before starting the DRIVE phase.
I don’t think wake thief’s description is so relevant for pro level pumping which to me is on small ha foils that we surf on. Nor is the dock start footage because it is typically on larger foils.
When Oskar says keep the nose up it is relatively speaking because on sensitive small ha foils it becomes critical to not drive down but more unweight as described earlier on.
I’ve seen Brady pump with the exact same technique in the surf on the Lift 90HA (580 cm^2). The Lift 170HA (1096 cm^2) in Brady’s IG dock start clip is probably the average size wing I see people riding in the surf.
The technique I see Oskar using on the a small HA wing in the surf looks very similar to his technique when pumping a bigger downwind foil. The up/down angle on his short prone board is probably similar to to the up down angle on his down wind board, the longer length of the down wind board just looks more exaggerated because of the length. I’ll leave it to someone else to actually measure the angle.
The physics of pumping from a dock start is exactly the same as the physics of pumping in surf.
I’m only an average pumper but from my observations there are a few key points I’m trying to improve on:
- two-footed pump; bending both knees equally, like jumping on a pogo stick (obvious when watching someone with good technique)
- full extension of the legs to maximize each pop
- narrow stance seems to help with 2-footed pump technique
- I’m uncertain of the importance of lifting your back heel. The videos of James Casey and Brady in this thread show barely any heel lift but others exaggerate it. Perhaps it helps with maximizing forward thrust?
I’m trying to form a relatively flat sine wave to avoid any steep angle of attack. Porpoising the old low aspect foils can create bad habits that are not tolerated by modern HA or mid-aspect foils.
This was about pro level pump not average surfers and pros don’t ride 170’s in the surf especially Brad. Most average foilers can pump a 170 easy enough.
I can see brad’s pump is very different just stepping down from the 170 to the 150 let alone all the way down to the 90. If the technique was the same through the size range we wouldn’t be having this thread as everybody would be able to pump around on the lift 90 like a pro and there would be no mystery.
I gave some insight into what I have experienced stepping continually down in size in the hope it might help. You chose your own path.
I leave this thread now as it stopped being helpful a while back.
we focus on the arms but they go backward because the upper body go as forward as possible and for me it is the torso that creates the forward momentum. The arms are just managing the balance.
I just realised the other day when winging in non-existent wind-swell on a small lake, with a board with foot straps - that I had to bring my hands forward in order to get more weight forward, so the foil wouldn’t slow down. 700 cm2 foil, not with the best ever glide. I had a constant feeling that I would have wanted to stand a bit further forward on the board, but the straps prevented doing that. Perhaps I will need to learn to lean more forward with the body, instead of throwing the hands forward.
The exact same setup in some waves feels totally good and balanced.
I agree that the arms are just for managing your balance . The pros have have a lot of different styles of arm swing. In the earlier Pedigo video, he goes through multiple styles of arm swing, they all work, some are just ugly.
It seems to me, the one thing the pros have in common is the perfect timing of when to start the drive (pumping down). The FoilWizard mentions it in the podcast with Erik, it’s not about up, up, up; it’s about down, down, down.
In this video clip of Brady, he’s riding the Lift 120HA. It’s the exact same technique he uses when dock starting on a Lift 170HA.
Brady seems not to use his arms, even the recent clips. The one you linked I’d say when he bogs the pump, that would be the exact moment where he could have got going more quickly. Anyway the point maybe that you don’t need to flail around to keep a foil moving is fair!
Overall, the outcomes then so that we can lock this thread:
- only applies when going slow and want to accelerate
- only applies when under-foiled on a fast high aspect
- is not necessary to do, and not at all necessary on big foils
- needs to be done at the correct sequence of the pump
I think video of yourself is key, I’ll think I’m doing something on foil then see iphone video some random beach bystander sends me of myself when I come in from my session and it’s totally different than I experienced.
I completely agree. Video is the best for improvement.
I agree that different foils respond better to different techniques. You wouldn’t surf a twin fin the same way you’d surf a thruster, even if they were the same height and volume. While the general principles are similar, it’d make sense that different foil shapes (of the same size/span/whatever) responded better to different micro-inputs.
In that same vein - people are also not all homogenous. If you look at pro golfers for example, the top ten in the world all have wildly different swings built around their physique, but within the general mechanics of golf. I think pumping could be similar.
Perhaps that explains why some of the best foilers/pumpers in the world vary so much in technique and advice.
If the above is true, then the question should be “What are the universal/necessary/fundamental mechanics of pumping?”
+1 on trying to get video to improve
I think that’s a good point, body type, fitness levels etc… I also think there’s a lot of ingrained style particularly for anyone who is/was a very good surfer. I saw that Brady Hurley video and instantly see John John Florence style with the leading arm glued to his side
JJF is the absolute sleeper of the foil world, if he goes properly public on how rad foiling is it will p̶r̶o̶b̶a̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶r̶u̶i̶n̶e̶d̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶e̶v̶e̶r̶. blow up massively
And his style translated to foiling would be super interesting, no doubt he absolutely rips on the sly
Super interesting thread. There is so much more we could breakdown here but I want to throw in my two cents for a couple things I didn’t see mentioned. First is foot stance, just about every high level pumper I’ve observed moves their stance closer together when pumping for any notable distance. I definitely do this and to me it’s always felt like I’m getting more effective return for my effort. An example I’ve always used is jump roping. You would never want to jump rope with a wide stance even if you were to completely remove the rope, it’s just not as efficient for the goal of the movement.
The other thing I want to bring up is the impact that body type may have on individual pumping style. What is most efficient for one person might not feel right for the next person with a different body type. The example I’ll use here is dead lifts. If you take the dead lift of a tall person with a long femur. It will typically look much more hinged at the waist than the person with the shorter femur who will likely be much more upright throughout the lift. Neither is wrong and both may be perfectly right for their given body types.
I’d encourage everyone to try different styles and cadences to find what feels best for them with their gear and physical traits. Also video of yourself is always super helpful in analyzing this stuff!
No doubt JJF rips on a foil, but I was referring to the way that certain stylistic tics propagate in surfing. For my generation the old Tom Curren head snap is a classic; it never made anyone surf better, but it made you feel like TC so just about everyone did it…
JJF when he was younger had a very pronounced front arm down style and I’ve noticed it in lots of surfers from that generation. Interestingly, his arms are a lot more free these days, not sure if that’s improvement in technique or conformance to judging to make his surfing look more dynamic.
I guess the point wrt pumping a foil is that not every body movement is totally functional, some things are just personal style…