Sorry I meant I think 1225 overall size is too big for prone for me, not the 935 span. I’d go for the MA 1000 or 800 if I was proning that line, and the spans on those are pretty narrow comparatively to Progression.
I’ve never tried the MA so I really cant say anything, its possible its really good and people are just going off of limited data points making false judgements before trying for themselves
Span is an important metric but it’s all about feel. I just tested some foils with similar spans and one felt gigantic and turned terrible and the other loose and much smaller. There are ways to make wider foils feel smaller in the surf. Dihedral, surface area near the tips, rake. The one factor you can’t get away from is bank angle but even there some foils breach way better than others.
Might it be because the MA has a thin leading edge? I would imagine that would reduce tolerance to higher AoA therefore causing the pump to be harder to achieve
I just winged the MA1000 with the new 140 dart tail in 15-20mph Chesapeake bay conditions with chest high windswell. Man, what an epic setup. Literally thinking it is like a dolphin. Can go up out of the water and back in with almost complete indifference to the threat of sucking air. From backside tail slides down the backsides of ramps to clean airs, to tips out, to no problem flat breaches on steep bumps while watching a friend boost off a kicker over my shoulder, this combo does it all. Now I just need to try it prone. Favorite stab I’ve tried yet based on 1st session.
Since I personally wing 9/10 sessions, the MAs have been epic. The stabs are so crucial with the MAs. Pair the wrong stab and it’s not going to perform well. The 180s great, 205 is good in the pocket, but has a bit more drag. The 140 unleashes the 1000. Less size = less drag = more glide and speed and agility. So much of Armies gear is built around allowing riders to progress through the gear as skill improves. Great way to keep the revenue stream up! 
Comparing the Armie MA 800 to the Uni PP 140. I have a lot of time on both in the surf prone and towing, and some kiting but I’ll skip the kiting unless someone is interested.
MA 800 great turning, holds speed well with out heavy front foot pressure as the speed increases. Handles wingtip breaches possibly the best in my quiver so far but it definitely lacks in pumping. It really has to have some speed and be in the sweet spot in the water column for it to take off pumping. The new 795 mast helps, but still can’t make up for the poor pumping.
I live in the space coast of FL and linking waves is some of the most fun I have so pumping and turning are the two things I analyze the most. I’m 5’7 145 lbs and prior to this was on the Lift 120/26 carve.
As of lately I have almost been exclusively riding the PP 140 in our FL summer surf and yes the glide is amazing and the pumping and the stall speed are to me the best attributes for that size wing. I’m running the med fuse which is slightly longer than what I was on previous but I’ve really started to dig the more stable carves. My favorite tail so far is the shiv with the 0 shim, I look forward to the tail upgrades in the future which can really unlock some fun.
In summary, the MA 800 has become my go-to wing for towing in smaller to medium size waves, and that’s about it. The PP 140 has become my daily driver, and I highly recommend it, even at my weight it handled the speed well on some chest high days last month. Feel free to check my insta @robnovo for clips on the PP 140.
I hope to post a comparison soon of the sk8 850 as well.
Thanks, helpful reply.
I primarily prone foil in CA, and have been riding the MA1000 as my daily driver since January. I weigh about 165Ibs. I have found the pump on the 1000 is great and it surfs very well IF it is setup correctly. I have it paired with the 60 fuse, 795 performance mast. I have found the secret sauce to be in the tail choice, tail shims, and mast placement.
My baseline/go to setup is the fv200 with no shim (-1 degree) angle of attack. And then bring the mast back a tad (compared to other pump/HA wings). I have found this setup to be very fast, but still locked in on the turns. Adding a degree of positive shim and zeroing out the angle of attack, makes pumping easier, but makes turning more challenging. The way I think about pumping the MA is like how I would pump the HA925, at or near the top end of the speed range. The wing is always very surfy but does not respond well to pump in the bottom half of the speed range. It needs speed!
Hope this helps someone! Happy to talk tuning with this wing as it’s pretty finicky, but really unlocks its potential if done right. I have ridden it with the fv200, ha195, 212 (232 chopped), and marlin 14” stabs atm. I have a surf 205 to try soon. Fv200 and 212 have been my favorites to strike a balance between pump and surf ability.
I got my progression 140 with the small fuse on preorder a few months ago. Coming from nothing but Armstrong everything for almost 3 years.
It’s all I use to prone surf now. Everything is improving, I’m excited to go surf gutless 1-2 foot surf. Been consistently getting longest rides linking the most waves and doing the sharpest turns to date in my time prone surfing.
The few times I’ve had it out in chest high surf or bigger I’ve definitely felt over foiled and considered changing out to my Armstrong MA 1000. I’m a small guy and pretty light so that’s the reason.
I’m considering getting the MA 800 for bigger days prone surfing. Is UNI going to produce the next size smaller to the 140 anytime soon? I still use my Armstrong gear for winging but I don’t want to be stuck between two brands to decide what to go surfing on. If anyone has information I would appreciate it, thanks.
I think they are going to make a smaller Progression, at least I’ve seen some hint like comments from various Unifoil people in various places. I was also looking at their site last week wondering why they didn’t have any smaller Hyper2 sizes under 150. So yeah, the smaller size wings for big waves/tow ins/super high wind is probably Unifoil’s current gap in their foils that they could be addressing soon.
Next time you’re feeling over foiled they the front foot tail. It helped me a lot and I have found I can push through turns much harder. I also went from Armstrong to Uni and ever since I changed my foiling has improved very fast. I do think the Armstrong system is good but they are doing most there testing with winging so its almost propelled and less pumping. I think in general that Unifoil is more of a prone foil brand they got that all figured out since the beginning. Of coarse just my opinion. Also For days with more turbulence I just recently ordered a Vyper 130 for tow and big stuff. I will be vocal on how it works out soon.
If the progression is the groveler surfboard of foils, does a smaller groveler board goes well in big waves? (prob not?) Or did they develop the 120 not so much in the idea of a groveler anymore? Keen to hear the feedback on the prog 120, interesting design choices must have been made.
When it comes to surfboards a groveler and a gun might be around the same size and volume, but the shape is very different. If the same applies to foils one could be on similar surface area and span, but different foil section and thickness (?) We see it more and more, lots of foils in the AR8 to 10, similar areas, but different foil section and thickness.
I’d agree. While I ride my grovel surfboard in slopey waves at head high or above. If the wave has proper shape then it does not work as good.
So a smaller grovel foil in larger short period waves will still probably work OK. But if the waves are higher period it may not work as good as a different shape.
I am really opening up the question here as the answer has yet to be figured out with design choices and testing (what a time to be alive!).
When waves get big, is it better to have a 800sqcm eagle (thin fast airfoil), or a 600sqcm progression (slower airfoil) for example? And maybe as you say its not even a question of size of wave but period. I have been using the 790 eagle in everything from knee to head high in >10sec swells and it just works. Maybe a prog 140 does exactly that, working in about everything, but in swells <10sec (?).
So it would be a choice of foil model based on the swell period, then size of foil based on rider weight/skills (and size of waves, but one foil size prob covers most conditions).
When it comes to surfboards I noticed this exact pattern. As long as the waves are powerful and hollow, a pyzel ghost will work no matter what size. As long as its soft, a firewire groveler will work just fine, almost any size. 2 surfboards to cover most conditions, choice of board based on wave shape/power.
And I’m not even saying period is the defining factor. I think wave shape/steepness might be the biggest factor.
The Foiling Mag mentions a Unifoil “Ultra” 90 foil that is supposedly coming out, could be interesting
Good points about a smaller progression style possibly not being desirable, hard to tell until it gets into rider’s hands.
I think there is no question that the Prog 170/140 is the ultimate groveler.
What the… Where does the mast go?
It’s all custom 3d printed. He has his mast go directly into the front wing as the system is designed to do that. It’s all over on standupzone.com in the foil section. “Admin” is the user.
Shimming 205 reduces drag
Have you tried any of the new tails? Like the 140 or 180?
