Best system to buy into for all new gear?

no Nonduro mentions :wink:

I think it’s more a feeling than a ride characteristic.
As a mediocre rider, foiling often felt a bit like riding a bike on ice.
After 15 minutes on the Code S everything felt healthy, it turns, carves, takes speed while remaining under controll.
To some extent, it eliminated part of the difficulty of foiling so now I can focus on the fun.

That being said, it’s probably not only a Code spec, but also moving to a more prone wing (lower AR).

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I demo codes…it was very similar to a Lift 120. The AFS Silk is pure magic if you like the Kujira.

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98kgs, foiling 6 years, I went from sabfoil, armstrong, gofoil, unifoil, code, axis then to AFS this year. AFS is way better than the rest imo, wish it was cheaper so I could buy more foils. I would not buy a legacy male to female mast to fuse connection, it’s 2025 not 2020!

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I have heard that silks do not pump well from many. Are you powered or are you pumping when riding them?

Are you comparing same year foils of each brand otherwise you’re just seeing general foil progression over the years

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if you need to pump around with your own effort, code is the only option for me. i got the afs silks and they definitely are better for carving due to the lower aspect ratio, but i cant pump it anywhere close to the codes. i moved to another country and only brought my code foils and my afs is sadly collecting dust. the enduro looks interesting as its higher AR, but what bothers me the most is not really the connection system, its that they went away from a monobloc system. Its weird to claim that you have the best stiffest monoblock silk wing, which i agree is 100% true, and then later say, yeah forget we said that, non-monoblock is stiff too. you cant have best of both worlds, and while i havent ridden kt, i wouldnt even be interested in trying it if it wasnt monobloc. on the otherhand, the new trident cloud 9, duotone d/lab are all monobloc and i would love to try those if i had the chance. why am i so crazy about monobloc, cuz i used to ride axis and the moment i went to code it was a night and day difference.

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Not sure monobloc necessarily means stiffer. The enduro setup I have is stiffer than anything else I have tried, granted I don’t have the silks to compare. Friends having silks and enduros don’t feel the difference of construction in stiffness. I think the current fuselink and fuse to front wing connection is really well engineered. Same with KT, really well designed, I cannot feel any wobble coming from those connections.
On the flipside, Fone is monobloc but the mast to fuse held by 3x6mm is a little bit underengineered for wings with more than 90cm in span imo.
It’s almost like older brands are at a disadvantage with their connection system as they usually avoid to change it over time despite the industry’s progress on that front.

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Maybe this is obvious to everyone else, but I had a weird observation when I tried the silks. I can’t really pump for any distance. On my lift 150hax, I can occasionally get a couple pumps in before I lose technique and ā€œpush throughā€ - I lose the back pressure from the foil, or lose balance and start swiveling. I had one super quick demo on the Silk 1050 and it was so easy to pump, it felt like it just worked, I pumped and it pushed back every time. For sure the HA foils might be more efficient over distance but it seems like the silk pumps ā€œwellā€ to me.

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I kite/sup/tow/wing and mostlty wing (best for most time on foil and flagging out and repeat) and sup.

  • sabfoil was before the kraken system, didn’t agree with it so left the brand
  • armi was v2 mast, orig HA’s, still very wobbly, wasn’t a good experience
  • gofoil was with RS/GT, it was good for a year, didn’t like carrying a mallet everywhere and the foil to fuse wears out and you feel movement, was ok until the others brands progressed
  • unifoil progression, katana, was ok didn’t suit the waves, conditions where I am, sold after 3 months

thought about armie again but didn’t like the rake in the new masts and the brand is locked into their mast fuse connection that needs a dozen or more bolts to hold it together, same issues as gofoil with foil to fuse connection

  • code was fine, felt movement in mast to fuse connection at my weight and needed a mallet/wax on some foils and not others, very inconsistent. the 850s was my favourite but it didn’t scale well and lost the magic in the bigger sizes and tried a mates spitfire and was more fun than code so changed to axis.
  • axis was nice, still felt mast to fuse movement and felt the brand is locked into the fuse connection system which requires increasingly more expensive wings using HM carbon but I’d still feel the mast to fuse movement. The PCHM mast wasn’t much better than the ali mast and the only mast with a tappered design was outrageously expensive. Spitfires are great, 1201 was good but had a habit off been thrown off in messy sea state, didn’t try the fireballs. Felt the mast was holding me back in axis, and not into after market masts
  • bought afs sight unseen after reading forum reviews, big gamble thankfully it paid off (so far), only riding the E range, but they pump really well - not that I’m a great pumper but I’ve had better experience on afs than any other to date, mast is great, I’m too heavy for the skinny but the UHM80 is working for me. Would love to try the silk (but never happen as no local dealer to demo) or buy a E in monoblock. Am content for now, need better conditions tbh to be able to ride more…
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All of these comments are great support to consider a cedrus mast lol. I just ordered mine and have heard from others that love them. I’m on uni now and will be purchasing some code foils soon as that’s all the rave lately. Give it a few months then another brand will be the next popular foil. I saw the cedrus up close and it’s a thing of beauty.

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Having a cedrus I’d say that’s the main problem with them. It’s really easy to be tempted, but in my case I was on k2, which I think is probably similar to silks, and never had much luck connecting. But today after over a month out of the water I connected a wave on foil drive first try which is unusual these winter days. That because I was empowered to try enduro. There’s a balance btwn learning your gear and getting better gear. I’m trying to move towards the former now.

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and don’t forget the enabling move ā€œmaybe I’ll just pick up a KT and an AFS connector for my Cedrus…just in caseā€¦ā€

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Like you, I was a little sad to see the non-monoblock build but having ridden the 700 in maxed out conditions and after chatting with AFS at AWSI I’ll admit it felt really stiff. The joint and triple m8 bolts to put it together seemed legit and I look forward to riding the lineup this spring. The one variable that is lost is the weight savings though. As soon as you step up to the 900 and larger your kit is about 1lbs or more heavier.

All that being said, the Enduro is the ā€œall-terrainā€ model for them. Having a non-monoblock option probably opened up a world of new customers who insist on fuse options and ease of travel. All my friends on the Enduros froth about them but when I tell them to try the Silk it’s always ā€œnah, I wont consider the Silk because it’s monoblock. I’ll wait until they release a v2 that breaks downā€

The Silks though, really the most shockingly versatile and high performance foil I’ve ever ridden once I put the time in on it. Each size took me a few sessions to get into but now, DW, flatwater, huge swell, epic carving, just keep changing the tail and that foil does it all. The UHM construction matched with the UHM masts skinny 75cm or standard 80cm and the crazy stiff tails make those foils unrivaled in my experience.

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I know 3 people who lost their entire F One hydroplane when the three M6 bolts broke. In all cases they did not hit anything, they were just carving turns. I was talking to a local at New Smyrna Beach the other day and he knows 5 people who have lost everything but the mast. F One’s response to one friend’s inquiry was he needs to torque those bolts to spec before every session and they offered 10% off on a replacement. Seriously?

Looking at the mast/fuse connection, it is the flimsiest design imaginable. They need a solid mortise & tenon connection like Axis/Unifoil/Lift, etc and not be loading those M6 bolts in bending.

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The good news is that there are now a lot of legitimately very good choices. I’m very happy with my Code and KT foils for performance, build and future prospects.

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I think the bolts are supposed to hold the foot in place and the sides of the connection counter the bending. But maybe above a certain strength the bolts snap. Afs, KT and Duotone did a beefed up version of that with M8 screws that work great (although I have not seen duotone in person). In depth post there Mast foot standard, industry standard interfaces - #93 by KDW

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Mikeslab has been using 1/4ā€ screws, which are only a tad wider (6.3mm) than M6, for ages. Without any issues ever reported. So it is not just the screws but how the overall connection is designed.

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How would you compare the two?

This is a funny one for the chat. Review of the F-One Momentum, but the bolts shear and the foil falls off mid review and he loses it in the water.
Spends a few sessions of snorkeling looking for it, only to find SOMEONE ELSES foil that fell off in a previous session, an AFS :sweat_smile:

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This is GOLD!!!