Foil Drive and Heavy Rider (105kg)

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I’m an intermediate foiler looking to get into the Foil Drive. I’ve done a few years of winging, but given my weight I usually need a good amount of wind to get up which limits my usable days.

I’ve got the idea that foil drive might be the solution for me. I can get out regardless of the wind. My only concern is how well it will work as a heavier guy. Does the HP motor have enough juice to get someone my size up easily enough, and if so will I be feeling the battery life?

I’ve read about the new “fusion” product that is coming soon, which may be geared towards heavier folks like me, so currently waiting to see what happens with that.

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The fusion will be the ticket for you. It packs a little more punch to get out of the water. I’d just wait till its officially available and go for it.

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The new Foildrive Fusion has been designed for heavier riders, will be released on the 19th Nov.

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Im a pretty heavy at 240 lbs and been on FD for a couple years with no issues I do run through batteries faster than most people but with the max battery and hp motor I can run for 50 minutes then swap for a fresh battery. Im running a narrow board that’s about 70 liters and and 1100 foil.

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What are your aims with the FD? Doesn’t sound like prone, so upwind-downwind, flatwater pump practice….? At ~100kg, Here are my thoughts with the standard motor and max battery after a couple of years.

The 3 blade prop is absolutely necessary. Ventilation will still be a problem because you are loading up the propeller so much more than a lightweight rider. Taping has to be really really good and an integrated mast is worth considering despite the cost. You really need a second mast anyways. I still haven’t plumped up for a second mast and my FD usage is frankly compromised enough to not make the original purchase worthwile. Maybe its different in Aus, but here if I get to the spot and the wind is too low to wing I am not making the tape stick to anything in the rain and 5 deg temps so its gotta be done before leaving the house.

A long narrow board is really important and the key thing is that it is not a pintail design. Need something with a bit of area to plane on out back as, contrary to any of the wind power sources the foil drive trims the board nose up rather than nose down. Can’t stress this enough, it wasn’t covered in the orginal infomercial material released by FoilDrive and while it is recognized now, I don’t see it given sufficient emphasis for heavier riders.

You really need two batteries, regardless of what you are on. I only get about 35min of upwind-downwind on a max battery and standard motor, on a big high aspect foil, and with an arrangement where I can mostly duck out of the wind on the way back upwind. This still only works if the wind is under 10knots, above that and battery time drops to 25min or less and the whole exercise becomes pointless. At our weight there is no flying up wind in the open ocean like the Josh Ku videe. At this point I only fall once maybe twice a session so its not relaunching that is eating the battery, and the downwind part I am using the motor less than 5% - only when I stuff up or drift into a dead spot. Reality is flying as a big guy requires a fair bit of juice.

Due to the effects of wind and already limited battery life, upwind-downwind for big boys is a big big foil only activity. The foil needs to be efficient, so fairly high AR - beginner and intermediate foils need not apply. If you don’t have one already, budget for one. I bought one, and found out it works okish for dockstarting and I can wing it from 8knots with a 5m wing and my midlength.

On the gear side, I would only really consider foil drive at 100kg plus if:
-You have or are willing to spend the money on a good, foildrive specific board. Wing/parawing sized midlength carries too many compromises to be a great experience.
-You have or are willing to spend the money on a mast dedicated to FD. Doesn’t have to be integrated, but based on my experiences an integrated will make a bigger difference for heavier riders with respect to ventilation
-You have the money to buy the HP motor and at least one HP battery, plus at least a max as battery #2. This way you can actually get some decent time on foil for all the effort of putting the session together. If you happen to live walking distance from your spot and have good flexibility with your schedule you can drop the second battery and just go for the fast charger if you prefer.

On the foiling side, I think the FD use case for a heavier rider really skews to helping with prone and being able to ride a small enough foil to really enjoy ripping the wave without killing yourself trying to link. Downwind is also a good use case, but I’d argue parawing is better bang for the buck there. The upwind-downwind usage is super duper limited compared to how it works for lighter riders, regardless of standard, HP, or eventual Fusion. I think the extra weight makes using FD to learn to pump quite difficult, and you have to master the FD foot shuffle first. In my experience, dockstarting is a much better bang for the buck way to work on pumping specifically. I will say, learning to FD has improved my balance considerably as, like parawinging, you don’t have anything in your hands to help with balance.

So, have a good think about your budget and what you want out of it. The gear can definitely work and be a game changer for a heavier rider, depending on your local conditions and use case. By the time you build out the full system around the FD it does come at a heck of a cost though.

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Wow thanks for this detailed write up, super helpful! My intended use case was actually more on the prone side, despite my winging background. I also have budgeted and would plan on getting a complete foil drive specific set up, including integrated mast. Do you think the trench boards make much of a difference, and how many liters do we need as heavier riders?

Excited to learn more about the fusion also, sounds like it might be just what I need.

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Glad you found it useful. I am terrible at prone and have really only dabbled with my existing gear and the FD, so I am sure you will find more useful info about trench boards from experienced guys in other threads. From the videos it looks to me like a trench can let you skim the board on the surface with less drag, allowing the board to provide an endplate that helps limit the ventilation issues that are made worse by having a very high motor mount, which you want particularly when proning. Same thing for board literage, well covered by more experienced people in other threads. For me, if I invested in a dedicated prone setup I’d want to eventually get to FD free proning, so it’d be a non-trench board around 45L (can still duck-dive it) and with some length, 5’6 or something to help catch waves and FD with small foils. I can surf and my pop up is ok, so board would probably be a bit more towards the narrow end of the width range

Back to the big guy FD angle, my standard setup with the 3 blade would work fine for a full prone session if I lived somewhere with good prone conditions or if I was much better at proning. Since neither of these are true, I really need to get a second battery to have a prone session limited by my own fitness or time availability. A water break after 40min isn’t a bad thing and the battery is quick to switch so this is fine. An HP motor and an HP battery would easily take me well over an hour proning at my mediocre level in my terrible spots, and with a second regular battery I’d easily be able to get my fill on any session I can do in my area. Context is key here though, all my spots are right near shore so transit to and from the spot is not a factor, I get in and go. As I said, I find the FD weight a big deal for pumping and it is also noticeable in turning and I do have to use a bigger foil than I would like to handle the extra weight.

I see Oceanpixels just took a Fusion for a spin and loved it as a heavy guy. It looked like he has quite some distance to cover to some of his spots, and he also absolutely rips turns and did an hour on foil with a 1099 a couple years ago so he knows how to pump. Unsurprising then that the tradeoff in weight vs range is one he is happy to make. Given my experiences and local conditions, I would not make that trade.

In summary, I think the standard FD gen 2 can work fine for heavy folks, but it really depending on your local situation. Might not flatwater start on a smaller foil, but with practice and a bit of push from a wave you will get up on most anything. HP system will give more run time and range with no noticeable weight penalty. Looks like Fusion kicks the run time and range up a lot, but with weight related trade-offs.

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Thank you!

The new fusion looks great, with the price tag to match. Everyone is talking about the weight penalty or trade offs, but I’m wondering what that really means for a heavier guy like me. Is it just that much more lift needed to support the additional weight, thus requiring a slightly bigger wing? If the Fusion is only ~2.5kg additional weight, that seems very minimal compared to my overall body weight, I might not even notice.

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No, I am talking pumping and turning. Adding weight slows down the dynamics significantly and in a very dynamic sport that is a big tradeoff. Pumping is affected more than turning. The pumping motion itself is harder to execute well with more weight, so less efficient, and it takes more effective energy to fly the heavier weight so things compound quickly. Much less of an issue if you are really good at pumping as the efficiency hit is much less.

Exact same mast and foil, going from dockstart board to ML is +1.5kg and a bunch of inertia and my pumping distance in flat water cuts in half, from 300m to around 150m and gravedigging if I make a mistake is much much much harder. Adding the standard FD to the ML and I am down to maybe 50m distance and gravedigging is fully impossible.

Think to your experiences in changing down board sizes, don’t make up a linear model off your weight, it doesn’t work like that. As I said before, what are you trying to do? Is FD an end or a means? If an end, just pulling the trigger all the time every time is no big deal, but if it is a means then weight will really get in the way of learning how to leave the trigger alone.

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That makes sense, thank you. I think I’m probably after more of a “surfing but with a ski lift” kind of vibe, more akin to a e-mtb that takes you to the top easily so you can just enjoy the downhills. Sounds like the fusion is a better fit for that.