What is the point of diminishing returns for Axis fuselage length for pure flatwater pumping, wake thieving, and light condition downwinding? I just picked up a Fireball 1350 to replace my SABfoil Leviathan 1350 for dock starting and general use for pumping around and riding tiny waves. I’ll likely mostly stick to the Enduro 1100 for light wind winging. I don’t have any plans to get a paddle and a downwind board, but I am dabbling with parawings. I’m 140 lbs dry.
Axis has quite an array of fuselages. I’m going to get an advance+ model, but trying to decide on the length. My intuition is that shorter is better for pure pumping, but at some point it must just get impractical. I’m also wondering if too short gets unstable for trying to glide with a swell or small wake. Ultrashort(640mm)? Crazyshort(600mm)?? SillyShort(560mm)??? PsychoShort(520mm)!?!?
I have a similar question about the Skinny rear wings. Does it go off the deep end at some point? They look a little stabby. I was leaning towards the 385/30 with 14.88 aspect ratio, roughly matching the FB 1350 AR.
Please tell me your idle speculations, or even better, practical experience with any of these!
This for virtually everything from 0 - 7 feet SUP foil and Downwinding. Great pump to get me through very smallest technical inside chop 12" - 18". A bit of a handful on downwind waves over 7 feet.
I can flatwater takeoff on this setup and get up in almost all great to terrible, small windy crossed up conditions.
Axis Fireball 1350 with 600mm A Fuselage, 35 Skinny Tail (75 HM mast)
This for downwind/SUP Foil situations from 5 - 8 feet. Feels much faster, slippery. Can keep up with the faster swell and not feel overwhelming. Slight compromise on pump but can still work it in smallish technical chop, 18" - 24".
Axis 1121 Pro with 600mm A Fuselage, 35 Skinny Tail (75 HM mast)
For bigger, faster reliably 5 - 10+ foot downwinding and SUP foil. Still can pump OK if you keep your speed up.
I was having a tough time getting up on the Fireball 1070 this winter so I just said “F it! I am riding the 1350 in everything.” One day we were running the Half Moon Bay downwind / jetty run and the buoys were 10 feet @ 20 seconds. Aka spooky big, 20 feet+ in the open Ocean, Mavericks 50+ feet and we were trying to play along the Jetty wall. I was on the 1350, with 40 tail and 560 mm fuselage. Other days it can be 4 feet @ 8 seconds and I am on the same set up. It is very versatile. When its big and fast just drop back and glide / pump your way to happiness. I weigh 195 and ride an 8’ 8" x 19" SUP board.
Note: I have found the 35 skinny tail a little too twitchy on the 560mm fuselage with the 1350. I thought I would get used to it but after ~ 5 sessions I switched back to the 40 Skinny.
I would also point out that the 30 and 25 skinnies “aren’t made for winging” which means you might break them easily and they cost like 30% more than the 35 skinny does even though they are 1/2 the size.
Beasho, thanks for that breakdown, it is very helpful to hear from someone who has tried a few different fuselages and skinny tails.
I was considering light condition downwinding and wake thieving to involve gliding on a small wave or wake. My point was I’m not purely optimizing for flat water. I guess it is all relative: we don’t have the kind ocean swell you are talking about on Puget sound or on lakes. In any case, your comments about when the setup starts to feel twitchy is the kind of information I was looking for.
I found the 1350 and 1250 work fine with the ultrashort and Skinny 30, but the 1160 and smaller are better on the short with the Skinny 30. This is in all conditions including flat water pumping.
The longer fuselage combined with the small stab has lower drag and faster than a short fuselage and larger rear stab.
I agree with Airsails. Caveat I’m only winging. But I have found the same result. Longer fuse with smaller stab equals faster but still turns great and more stable.
As an example last weekend at the Gorge I switched setups from a “short” fuse with Skinny 35 stab to “ultrashort” fuse with P350 stab and I couldn’t believe how locked in the P350 felt. It was way slower and harder to turn than the Skinny stab.
I think Axis chased after short fuses to loosen up the setup when the Progressive was their main stabilizer. With the advent of the faster and smaller Skinny stabs, you don’t need that short fuse to loosen it up.
I started with a Skinny 45, then 40, then 35, then even a 30 to try it. Now I don’t ride anything bigger than the 40. Only the 30 feels marginally too small and unstable. The Skinnys really are an excellent product.
I guess the upshot for me is, don’t chase a shorter fuse, progress down in size of stab…
I have the 1350FB and pump flat water, dock start, and use foil drive to get up and pump to catch boat wakes and wind driven small lake chop.
Gear I have and tested for this: both ad+ ultra short and silly short. skinny rear 50,40,30. on an 80 alu. mast.
my go to set up is the ad+ ultra short I like the feel of the pump better. did a ton of neg. shims landed with the 40 shined -0.75. This gets me good pumps and glide.
Glide is my current goal.
Boards are 24 L 4’6". 70 L 5’8" and 120L 8’6" all work great and pump well with this set up for me. I am 160 lbs.
My goto setup for FB 1070 and 1250 are the A+ Sillyshort and the progressive 250. I also have skinny 25, but prefer the feel of the progressive. Pumps and turns really well.
The longer fuses have more leverage and give more stability for a given amount of stabilizer drag. Reducing stabilizer drag has a surprisingly large effect on glide, especially at speed.
I’m not sure I notice a performance difference in fuse length when pumping around at slower speeds. Maybe the technique changes a bit. A shorter fuse loosens up a large span front foil.
I’m winging so I’m on small front foils with good turning and much prefer a longer fuse and smaller stab. Currently using Adv+UltraShort and Skinny 40 with everything.
