I’m an advanced wing foiler, with experience winging in small/midsize waves and swell, and I have some modest longboard surfing experience (I can paddle into a wave, make a drop, and go down the line, but I’m definitely not any good). Summer wind can be fickle and the mushy summer northeast waves could be fun to foil.
Thinking of giving the prone thing a try this summer and will probably give it a try on my wing board (4’9" / 22.5" wide, 60L). Tell me if thats a bad idea or if its going to make things a lot harder. After that, can someone recommend a good intro prone board? Either a specific model or dimensions I should look for.
Im also very open to a used board in good condition if someone has one and shipping isn’t crazy.
I’m assuming that you’re already self towing into the waves while winging and then depowering to just ride the wave energy? If so, and pairing that up with your limited longboard surf experience you should be fine to use the board you already have to give prone a go.
What size foils do you already have and how much do you weigh? Also, what kind of breaking waves are you looking at in your local area? Are they really steep and pitchy even when small, or do they just crumble from the top? The latter is preferable when trying to figure out the pop-up on foil as it’ll be much more forgiving.
Yes, I’m totally comfortable surfing on midsized waves when I’m winging. I just haven’t paddled in or popped up. Once I’m up and stabilized I’m probably fine, it’s getting there that I need to learn.
Our waves are a pretty mixed bag, but probably a little pitchier than ideal during the summer. Definitely small though. I’m probably going to be relegated to some very low quality breaks away from crowds while I’m learning this.
I’m 80kg and right now I’m mostly on the hyper2 190 and the h800. For now I would probably be using those foils but my quiver changes often. I don’t really see a larger foil in my future for now though.
Not board related but something I think worth considering is getting a much slower foil. If you are on a fast foil in slow waves then you will work hard to keep the foil moving fast, and only really possible to do this by either:
pumping which means you’ll be using the waves as chip ins rather than riding them (fine if you link the swells at the back)
cutting back to the energy of the wave, obviously both the point of surfing, and very difficult initially, even more so on HA. In marginal waves you will nearly instantly out run the wave if you have a fast foil
A slower foil gives you a better chance of dealing with outrunning the energy, close out sections, whitewater, and I reckon leads to better turns and so progression of skills. I say this after changing from an axis ART to HPS and leading to much better sessions.
I also tried a 50L setup with an old 760SP and it was incredibly stable and easy, and sat really nicely in the energy of the wave, while turning pretty well.
With the wing you have power at hand, surf you have to work a bit harder to keep the foil moving.
This is an interesting discussion.
Slower foils are generally less reactive, so more forgiving to approximate technic.
But are they really easier in waves ?
I am still learning, and really only beginning to manage manoeuver in waves.
But through my experience, I think that I was more often annoyed by slow foils that prevent you from deciding where you are doing in the wave.
Slow foils make you be the victim of the wave, because you cannot choose where you are/go.
You are at one spot, and the wave bullies you, you are not fast enough to dominate the wave movement.
Faster foils are allowing you to dominate the wave evolution, decide where you are in the wave, escape it, do manoeuvers, go back, etc.
If your foil is fast, too fast, it just gives you more options.
Do down the wave (yellow arrow), and then up.
Go right and then left while remaining in the pocket of power.
If you’re escaping the wave towards the beach (yellow), just go more perpendicular (the red arrow). If you’re also outrunning the wave, go on the other direction.
All these options don’t exist with a slower foil.
I must admit that I am still learning to navigate waves and manoeuver.
But I have the experience and intuition that the smaller (and faster) I go, the more it solves my issues.
I think I had made that suggestion because fast foils from 2 years ago stalled very easily. Today that is not the case, so there is maybe less validity from that suggestion, but I think it is still worth considering:
It’s hard to explain without you having an understanding of what “good” surfing is actually doing. It is primarily staying in the critical pocket of the wave, and you do this by doing cutbacks so that you don’t outrun the wave. The wave has the most energy right where it breaks, so staying near the breaking part of the wave gives you the most energy, which you can burn by doing turns. So good surfing is gathering and burning speed. Watch some videos of point break surfing, especially a mix of good and bad surfers, and you’ll see the best surfers stay right in the pocket.
Foils are very fast, and cannot turn tightly, so the challenge is burning off the speed that we have. When foiling, you have too much speed.
Watch this clip of Mike Pedigo. Watch how before his bottom turn he will always go straight for a while, and sometimes even turn away from the direction of the wave. This is to slow down and burn speed. If he just went “down the line” (your red arrow), he’d gain too much speed, so he literally never does!
So when it comes to picking a foil:
If you are on a fast foil, you will not burn speed quickly enough, and so you not be able to surf in the pocket. Too much glide is bad for turns, as you never slow down.
This will depend on the waves, and your skill, but matching the speed of the foil with the speed of the waves is basically what I meant in my prior post.
Erik speaks about this with Zane in latest podcast. Slower foil means you can stay rolling turns from rail to rail without running ahead of the pocket of the wave. Google “surfing in the pocket” for an idea. Good surfing is surfing vertically, and in the pocket. Zane does this well, as does Mike. It’s insanely difficult on a foil, and impossible on a fast foil.
This is probably counterintuitive, but the same is true with surfing. The best surfers have very slow surfboards designed for burning speed. Beginners have flat surfboards designed to go fast. I think (not certain), that slower foils are easier to turn, generally easier to pump, and foils are fast enough on average to go anywhere, so learning to turn them is the most useful skill.
Also worth noting, you need very little energy to keep a foil going example
So I suggest a slower foil as it can help you get into sync with the speed of a wave.
This is more practical, but I don’t think is the essence of what surf foil designers and the collective mind is aiming for. But if this is what you like doing then by all means!
If the wave is closing out (breaking all at once) then it isn’t a good wave for turns.
