Introducing F4 Foils

Great to have you here on the forum Chris!

I’ve been on F4 designed foils since 2017. First Neil Pryde, and then later F4. Started on windfoil, and switched to wingfoil 3-4 years ago. And just about to become a parawinger.

My focus has mainly been the wingfoil race stuff, but the Orca have converted me. Now all I can think about is riding bumps on the 685. I go upwind with the wing, and then enjoy the bumps going downwind. The 685 goes fast upwind, and I can comfortably tack on it in almost any conditions, so I can get far upwind in no time.

In the GP series I have owned Hoki 580 - 1449, Wahoo 540 - 800, Coyote 824 - 1003, and now have the complete Orca range. I am 90 kg and 192cm, and I mostly ride in fjords on the west coast of Norway. So wind swell, and often short steep bumps.

Have been on the 95 TE mast, and 106 race mast. But have just recently received the 75 downwind mast. Since now the focus is riding bumps, I can see the benefit of going shorter.

The 685 I have used since it was launched earlier this year. And I really don’t see the need for F4 to have another model that turns better. Because it turns fantastic. It’s like Walt describes very well in the podcast. It is also really fun to blast on flat water, and do as sharp tacks and turns as possible.

last week I got the other foils in the Orca series. The 1250 to have a go on dock start, and the 800 to get more fun out of the small stuff. Have not been conditions to try the 800 in bumps yet. But I had a go on it in flat conditions yesterday, with a 3.5.

Tried to do an “around the world”, like a 360 with the wing flagged out. Nailed it on the second attempt, and there were absolutely no need for pumping the foil.

Cheers,

Øyvind

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I got my F4 Orca foil’s and mast this week.

@Topmick I had a few prone and sup sessions on the 685 Orca and really enjoyed it. Was using a mate’s UHM Team edition mast (non-race one) I think this could happily be my go to prone foil. The surf feels were sweet for me and it took a lot less effort to pump around the line up.

@Oyvbirk I had a DW run in the ocean. A good moderate strength day here on the East Coast of Oz, 15-18knts and a small swell. I took the race mast and the 800 Orca. I was surprised by the glide and acceleration of the setup, it was very easy to go fast. The foil has impressive range, far more than my previous foils, it actually replace’s 3 foils that I use to DW on across bay and ocean conditions.

Great to hear other’s are getting stoked from their new toys too.

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The X-Foils Podcast Case #48: The F4 Orca Story: Carbon Addicts Anonymous with Chris Radkowski

In Case 48, Walt and I catch up with Chris Radkowski, the designer behind F4 Foils. While Walt was in Maui, he picked up a setup from Guido and could not stop raving about the new Orca line for downwind—so of course, I had to try it too. Spoiler: they did not disappoint.

What makes F4 stand out is that they’re not afraid to throw carbon at an idea. Constantly reviewing designs, experimenting with different stiffness layups, and fine-tuning wing concepts, they landed on something special with the Orca—exactly what we’ve been looking for in a downwind foil.
And they’re not stopping there. Expect Orca surf foils soon, along with expanded 11mm mast sizes. The foil world is looking brighter with F4, and we’re genuinely excited to be working with them.

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has anyone compared the code r to the orca? seems like similar foils to compare for AR

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Cool interview,

On the “engineered flex” (some other term was used, ~22:00-25:00), I wonder.. I would like to hear from someone trying them for prone as I have found that there is no scenario where I’d take any tradeoff against stiffness. Implies needing another mast for prone. I’ve also not loved the AFS UHM 75cm Skinny for prone, but could see it working for downwind.

The xfoils crew are early Code converts, so you can listen to every line from Walt in that podcast and append “compared to the code 770R” to get a comparison to Code.

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I’m on the Orca800 + 135 short tail, and recently swapped with a friend on a Code 960. We were sup surfing our downwind boards. Can’t remember what tail the code has. Probably should compare a Code 860, but it’s what I got.

The 960 paddles up easier, more glide, pumps easier. But felt like I was driving a school bus vs. a Porsche (the Orca 800). Once up and going, the Orca low end probably isn’t far off from the Code 960. But the Orca definitely needed more speed to get up initially.

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Well there are a lot of factors going into what makes this foil great from what I have seen, and tested, and trying to compare, as I’m getting this question a lot! Should make a canned response :laughing:

The mast is thinner, the fuse is thinner, the whole set up is much lighter. There is just a frictionless feel to it.

The 11mm mast is not as stiff as the 13mm mast. it’s not that they can’t make it as stiff it was designed for DW foiling, and turning with reaction. On land everyone grabs the foil and bends it side to side and says it’s not very stiff, but didn’t twist it or foil it?

So from riding this mast, and foils I have dug pretty deep into my Soul and talk to Chris regarding why we are all looking for Stiff and this it was I have come to understand from the feels

When we say a mast flexes we are usually talking about lateral bending the mast can move a little side-to-side under load. This is different from torsional stiffenss , which is how much the mast resists twisting along its length, like wringing out a towel

Lateral flex in a mast with controlled flex can absorb chop smooth out the ride and give feedback through your feet Too much flex, though, and it feels delayed like the foil lags behind your input.

Torsional stiffness, twist resistance?

This is about precision and control. A mast that twists under load feels like the foil is “sloppy,” especially when carving or pumping. High torsional stiffness gives your front foot input instantly translates into wing angle change and direction. That’s why this foils feels so good to turn at a 12.5AR

So my thought is this DW mast that has lateral flex but torsion stiffness was designed to give you the goods of both worlds. Flex lateral feels like a Softer ride, better in turbulence, smoother connection to the water.but ultra stiff torsionally has razor-sharp turns and pumps, no loss of precision. I’m getting the feel without losing control.

I am rethinking everything I know about “stiffness” after talking to Chris about the load testing they do :exploding_head:

Comparing codeR to this orca. Am I comparing low end to high end, turning and surfing?

I have only tried the 800 orca with the XS 135 ( 60.5cm) and the 685 with the S 135 ( 66cm)

The 685 has as much low end in the glide as the 770 seems to need slightly more speed to take off, but maybe just slightly. But it gets up to speed faster as the set up is lighter and thinner. The 800 might have a similar low end once up on foil to the 960R, but glides at speeds similar to the 770R at speed. so sum it up, they have better range to them, then they surf sharper and more reactive.

Again the code mast is about 14-15mm, and this is 11mm, there has to be an equation there.

Walt tried the 13mm 75 TE back to back to the TE DW 11mm 75 mast ( non production, so slightly left stiff 11mm to the one I have)

He said : “Yeah man, there’s something about these 13 mm. It’s like the foil section They’re using on the mast creates much more lift where the mast wants to go straight and fights You on the turns. It’s a very radical difference from the skinny mast I have”

So I’m thinking he is taking about the “Flex” we have in the 11mm DW TE mast.

I did prone the 685 with the S 135 on the AMP FliteLAB board with 2 batteries. I was not used to it in the surf as much as DW it, so my turns were more safety, but I could pump it back 8 sets with no issue at all, every pump I would just go faster, and it’s easy to keep the foil up high. You pump one time and it would set up high in the mast and hold.

Sorry it’s been a hectic few weeks my Brain hurts with all this thinking

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Huge thx Dylan!! Exactomundo! The DW TE 11mm mast is not only thin, the chord is very small. This makes the whole setup a lot looser. Less inertia is necessary to initiate side to side turning. 13mm isn’t thick by any measure, however with the wider chord, it makes for a much more stable ride!

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So the main difference between the f4 and code is the mast thickness? If code comes out with the race mast being prototyped then would there still be a noticeable difference between the two products. Also is f4 coming out with any ar 16 foils similar to the axis tempo. I hate axis but the tempo looks like it would have insane glide and speed.

Both thickness and chord are substantially reduced compared to code mast (and most other masts on the market)

Would definitely like to learn more about what they have coming up for surf foils…

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Great podcast Dylan & Chris (and Walt). This Orca is the only foil that has me considering leaving my ecosystem of foils of over 7 years. I think it fits my sweet spot of an upwind/downwind 68kg parawinger. Just need that 78-82 cm range DW skinny mast to help getting upwind over steep swell.

Funny side note: At the 8:00 mark on the pod, Chris mentions the east coast guy making and selling windsurf fins; his name is Dave Kashy and he’s a good friend of mine. He wanted to correct the pricing: $800 for the fin, $1400 for a rush, and $1800 with emergency rush. That is just crazy! Especially considering this isn’t 2025 pricing. I’ve seen his rig for making these fins and it is full on mad scientist, complete with a pressure cooker, gauges, tubes everywhere.

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85 skinny is coming.

They do have a 80 skinny, but in a tuttle.

If we make enough demands they will make us an 80 :winking_face_with_tongue:!

I have no issue with the 75.

Here is my 75 compared to my 80+ code

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No, everything is thinner. Foil section, mast, fuse. It looks fragile/ petite compared to the Code. I don’t have a weight comparison, but the whole foil set feels dramatically lighter than anything else out there.

I’ve got my Orca 800 mated up to my 8’9” flying fish board which weighs 10 lbs. The whole setup is so incredibly light, and that makes a huge difference in the ride experience.

I was getting bored/ frustrated with my own skill and progression vs my stamina and skill. F4 was like entering a cheat code for me. Put a smile back on my face when riding. I think it’s the same experience a lot of DW riders had when Code came out.

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Lots of interest in 80cm skinny plate for surf and DW!! Will discuss with management :slight_smile: !!

Br,

Chris

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Ok, then what are your thoughts with the possibility of the fuse to mast failing similar to what’s happening with f-one. Heavy riders pumping aggressively the largest foil (ie 1250 orca). What’s different with the f4 connection vs the f-one one which is notorious for failing (personally saw it happen to someone who got new f-one and the screws broke off in 3 days)

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is the mast to fuselage connection M6 or M8?

I don’t know because I’m not a fat ass pumping the largest foil. Hopefully the materials and engineering are better so that doesn’t happen. I guess I’ll find out. Fortunately F4 is super responsive. No calling a dealer and getting jerked around.

M6 for the connection.

It’s a trade off. Do you take care of your stuff. Or do you want to use it as a pry bar. Do you want to go fast and efficient or do you want to survive every possible mishap?

I am concerned about breaking my front foil in shore pound beach pummeling. It’s been a concern with every foil, and more of a concern as the foils get smaller and thinner. If it breaks while getting thrashed in shore pound I’ll have to buy another foil.

I personally reject the idea that any of these foils fail under normal use, unless they have a workmanship defect. Some brands are known to have lots of workmanship and quality issues. Some brands have few to none.

Boards are the same, do you want light or bomb proof. I personally ride a board that weighs 10 lbs. It’s like an egg shell. But it’s so nice to ride and easy to pop up, and I’ll take that and it’s shortened life span vs a heavier board. For folks that need bomb proof there’s stuff like apple tree and others.

Pretty impossible to break three m6 in tension without breaking the foil. If the bolts are loose and cyclic stress is at play then m8 won’t count for anything either.

Rumor has it they have a big boy 270LB ripping on the 1250 orca on the TE mast. So far so good!