What foils + masts are folks loving for winging that are fast AF, but still surfy, have good glide, and well behaved when going 20 to 30+ mph?
What’s your pov on what makes a good foil for fast, fun winging? IMO, a good test is how fast you can come into a heel side tack, maintain glide, breach the tip and you don’t even feel it. If it can behave well for this, then it’s likely good for most other things like swell and wave riding.
Fun means something more than mowing the lawn doing gybes. Even if the conditions are flat but decently windy (> 18mph) a fast foil can make the session way more fun doing transitions, backwinding, riding some little wind swell. Not talking airs and freestyle… looks fun but I already damage too much gear including wing canopy slices.
My experience (mostly with Cedrus mast, but also tried Lift and other brand specific masts which didn’t feel any faster. Maybe the foils are not small enough for the mast to be the limiting factor):
Kujira 1095 + PC mast: Checks most boxes fun, surfy, decently fast but is a bit slow. This is my daily driver. Passes heelside tack test but is a bit slow. Maybe I just need a smaller one.
ART 999 + HM carbon mast: Good glide, turns decently well with advanced fuse, but also a bit slow. Passes heelside tack test.
Moses/SAB 1000 + SAB carbon mast: Good glide, turning, but top end is a bit slow. Fails heelside tack test in terms of consistency.
Lift 120 + Lift mast: Checks most boxes, but something felt off, may just be me. Others I ride with love it. Passes heelside tack test consistently.
Prog 140 + Cedrus mast: Just received shipment, haven’t tried it yet. Too busy with work, fam, etc.
The eagle (790) with hm mast beats every other foil I have tried by a long long margin (takuma/cab/uni), ridiculously fast, crazy glide, apparent wind and upwind angles are unbelievable, and… amazing in the waves, pitch stable with the short fuse, fast and controlled roll.
Just try it out, and you shall see.
Check out AFS Pure foils and their UHM mast. I haven’t seen the mast in person yet but the Pure foil is a gorgeous work of carbon fiber and performs so well
370 and 399 in the clips above. Still have the w800, but to be honest, haven’t used it for a while. The entire this year I have been using razors exclusively - thicker and slower, but these start working at some super slow speeds compared to the w800. Our winds are usually quite terrible here.
From what the designer says and how it feels, also tested on kujira, winglets add efficiency and stability at speed. Tuning them down seems wiser than chopping them.
The ART999 is my go-to, everyday foil but when it’s consistently in the high teens or above I downsize to the ART799. I’m pairing both foils the with non-advanced ultrashort fuse, 325p tail and v1 96cm carbon mast. My top speed is just under 22kts (25mph) but any time I approach 20kt things feel very loaded up and sketchy. I’ve landed on the fact that this mast is probably the weak link. Going to be trying a few other brands in the future to determine whether I stick with Axis.
A few more questions as you’ve gotten my attention on the Eagle 790:
(1) Do you know if there are new F One masts I should wait for before pulling the trigger? What length mast do you like, 85 or 95cm?
(2) What F One tail do you recommend for wind swell and surfy feel?
(3) What length fuse XS, XXS, or XXXS?
(4) Have you tried Mikes Lab 800 or 600 or heard of comparisons with the Eagle? Mikes Lab seems like the best foil out there for winging so wondering how it compares to the Eagle.
I heard a 80cm mast is coming. Not sure for the tail, will receive the kit soon and start playing around. kd13r with short fuse feels good. Adam bennets uses the fone carve 200 chopped to 10.5", short fuse. Have not tried mikes lab but heard they struggle a bit in turning and surfy feel. Adam showing extensively how well the eagle performs in the waves. For me proning it is a bit on edge, technical because of high stall speed, but winging is the perfect match.
I just wing to ride waves and swell. Bigger the better. My current favorite setup is axis 799, advanced silly short, 300 tail. Fast and loose. Max speeds on waves is usually in mid to upper 20’s, broken 30mph a couple times according to my phone.
I agree with @foilstate about the Eagles and can give a little more feedback.
At my weight of 75kgs I prefer the 890 over the 790 since I can ride it in lighter winds and smaller swells.
The 790 I tried had the winglets chopped off with a DW210 stabilizer chopped to 13". It felt a lot looser in roll and yaw and no where nearly as good at pump and glide vs 890 with winglets and C200.
The C200 stabilizer really makes them come alive in regards to carving.
There are new monoblock XXXS fuselages with stabilizers coming in 160, 180 and 200 sizes originally designed for the SK8 but should work well with Eagles too.
I really like them with the XXXS fuselage but longer fuselages will give you a little more glide but reduce acceleration when pumping.
F-One is coming out with a 14mm HM Carbon mast in sizes 80cm & 85cm only.
Their standard HM mast is 16mm and recommended for heavier riders.
I have been spending more time on the eagle 790, as long as you keep the speed up, its a stellar wing checking all the boxes, extreme efficiency and agility (i don’t think any other mainstream foil comes even close to this (?)).
At 77kg it feels like the perfect all around high performance size winging (12kts and above) and proning (hip high and above). I am guessing 890 is much more accessible and fitting most people requirements, and 690 is for really really skilled foilers aka bennets, yet to try those 2 sizes.
I would say short fuse and kd13r is a little bit locked in, could be freed just a bit. I will investigate shorter fuse and/or c200 chopped.
The current HM 85 mast I am using is 14.5mm thickness throught the whole height, I have not had any ventillation yet. Best in class, again, I don’t think many other mainstream foil mast beat this. Mikeslab and chubanga probably better mast, allure and afs probably have something in the same realm.
That’s some helpful info Nate. Especially that there might be a new mast coming. Are you sure about the dimensions btw? The f-one website says the current HM mast is 14.5mm. CARBON MAST HM - F-ONE
Also, do you know anything about timeline for the new mast? The 2023 product catalog that was leaked a few months back had sk8 and all the new wings, but i don’t think i saw anything about a new mast.
Yes, I am searching for the most pitch stable setup while keeping the roll free, to carve bigger waves at high speeds. That’s why I want to keep the fuse as long as possible, with the smallest/thinnest possible tail. Adam is at the forefront of this way of tuning the foil.
When winging in decent conditions (20 mph+ wind), a foil that can handle speed (stable at 18 mph+) without sacrificing glide and a still have surfy feel is key (wind usually means wind swell which can be weak if no groundswell mixing in). This is a challenge for a foil because span helps glide but can cause instability and is more subject to deflection at high speed from turbulence in the water (current, swell, boat traffic). I mostly use the Kujira 1095 and it checks a lot of boxes but gets unsettled above 20 mph and the wide span causes periodic tip deflection especially when going faster. I recently bought the Progression 140 and while the carving is amazing, I feel like there are gremlins on the tips of the foil (or tail) sticking out their arms periodically, especially at higher speeds (18mph+) that causes wipeouts. Not sure if this can be tuned out and maybe there’s some ventilation happening somewhere in the rig (foil, mast, tail). Maybe I need a smaller tail and/or Katana mast. I’m going to try a few more tunings to see if that helps but it may become a prone only wing for me. When winging in the SF Bay you want a foil that can handle speed but also can glide on the weak windswell. The 1095 excels at that but needs more top end stability. Sounds like the Eagle is the one to go with until my Mikes Lab is ready. Also hear good things about the new F4 foils.
